Sea urchin | Sea Urchin (Elite)

[the Sage]

im not sure if its a mistake but isnt the upgrade the same thing?
Even though it takes 1 damage it would still die..... just like how the first one is destroyed.

I understand your confusion, because the difference is quite subtle.
They are not quite the same; the difference lies in the fact that if you use heavy armor/bless/momentum/chaos power/basilisk blood, the unupgraded version will still die when stepped on. The upgraded version will live, allowing it to infect and delay another creature on the next turn.

[Astraic]

kk then i think its AWESOME!

[Lanidrak]

Overall. I like the idea.

One thing is puzzling me though.

I have 2 Sea Urchins in play. Both Upgraded.
One has 0/7 (I plate armored him)
Other has 0/1 (I couldn't afford plate armor)

My opponent is attacking with:
One 5/5 Elite Cockatrice (with Adrenaline)
Three 2/2 Elite Skeletons

What happens next?

a) Two skeletons take 1 poison counter. Urchin One takes 1 damage. Urchin Two dies.
b) The Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin One takes 3 damage.
c) Each Skeleton takes 1 poison counter, the Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin 1 takes 6 damage?

[Astraic]

Overall. I like the idea.

One thing is puzzling me though.

I have 2 Sea Urchins in play. Both Upgraded.
One has 0/7 (I plate armored him)
Other has 0/1 (I couldn't afford plate armor)

My opponent is attacking with:
One 5/5 Elite Cockatrice (with Adrenaline)
Three 2/2 Elite Skeletons

What happens next?

a) Two skeletons take 1 poison counter. Urchin One takes 1 damage. Urchin Two dies.
b) The Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin One takes 3 damage.
c) Each Skeleton takes 1 poison counter, the Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin 1 takes 6 damage?

i think it would depend...
im not sure but its just like the order you play your monsters is the order they attack....
when i had 2 purple nymphs one of them was antimattered another wasn't and my opponent had 8 HP..... for sum reason the antimattered one attacked 1st...........
so im guessing which ever one you played 1st will be the one getting affected if it dies it goes to the 2nd one

[Lanidrak]

So, in that case.

A Sea Urchin works like a Armaggio?

Each attacking creature attacks like normal, in order. If a Sea Urchin is in play, for each "Grounded Attacking" creature, the Sea Urchin takes 1 damage and the attacking creature takes 1 poison. This would continue until the Sea Urchin died. Different to the Armaggio, in that the Sea Urchin takes 1 damage regardless of the Attacking Creatures attack power - a bit like a Bone Wall. Whereas the Armaggio takes full damage.

If this is the case. I don't truly understand the benefit of this card. Especially considering that a Plague, or a Retrovirus can poison EVERY enemy creature, air-born or grounded - for very little cost.

The only benefit of this card would be to poison Immaterial or Immortal creatures. But, that is extremely luck dependent on the order in which they have been put into play.

The overcome this problem I suggest that the card does instant damage (like a fire buckler) and applies a stasis effect (like procrastination).

Give it an HP increase, so that it can affect more than 1 creature.

Maybe, something like:

Sea Urchin (normal)
Stats: 0/3
Ability: Attacking Grounded creatures take 1 damage and are stasis for 1 turn. Sea Urchin takes 1 damage per attacker.

Sea Urchin (upgraded)
Stats: 0/5
Ability: Attacking Grounded creatures take 1 damage and are stasis for 1 turn. Sea Urchin takes 1 damage per attacker.

[the Sage]

I have 2 Sea Urchins in play. Both Upgraded.
One has 0/7 (I plate armored him)
Other has 0/1 (I couldn't afford plate armor)
My opponent is attacking with:
One 5/5 Elite Cockatrice (with Adrenaline)
Three 2/2 Elite Skeletons
What happens next?
a) Two skeletons take 1 poison counter. Urchin One takes 1 damage. Urchin Two dies.
b) The Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin One takes 3 damage.
c) Each Skeleton takes 1 poison counter, the Cockatrice takes 3 poison counters. Urchin 1 takes 6 damage?

d) One enemy steps on Urchin 1. It loses 1 hp; enemy delayed and infected.
One other enemy steps on Urchin 2. It losts 1 hp (dies); enemy is delayed and infected.
If either enemy was the cockatrice, it is delayed, so the adrenaline attacks do not take place.
Either way, each urchin is stepped on only once per turn.
On the next turn, 2 enemies will be delayed, and only the third will attack, stepping on Urchin 1.

If this is the case. I don't truly understand the benefit of this card. Especially considering that a Plague, or a Retrovirus can poison EVERY enemy creature, air-born or grounded - for very little cost.

Basically, it's dirt cheap creature control with buff potential. Unupped plague costs 4 . Upped retro or plague still costs 2 . Also, death is all about killing creatures and already has cheap ways to do so. This is water. =)
The buffed Urchin works on creatures that your opponent hasn't played yet, meaning you can use it pre-emptively.
It applies stasis AND deals 1 damage per turn (stasis meaning an extra damage).

As a 1  cost card, I'd prefer the unupped to freeze (because it's lethal). Toadfish only works in an air duo, but I guess ice lance might be better overall since it also costs 1 and has faster damage potential.
Admittedly, the upped is only better than the unupped when buffing, making it less suitable for a water mono.

So, in that case.
A Sea Urchin works like a Armaggio?

It's not like Armagio; if you've buffed the upgraded one, it still affects only one creature per turn.
I have to admit that overall it's more likely to be (slightly) UP than OP at the moment. The grounded part makes it not stop dragons, which is a shame (but I can't imagine something that sits on the ocean floor stopping a dragon because it steps on it.
If the community thinks this card is UP (see poll), I might consider still increasing both creatures to 2 hp (which doesn't help the unupped much, but doubles the unbuffed upped).

I understand the tendency people have to make any new card idea higher in power than most existing cards, but I'd prefer something that fills a niche, adds an interesting flavor/game mechanic, but does not increase the overall power (except by adding card options and thus flexibility).

[Lanidrak]

Personally I think it should work like Armaggio.

Yeah, at 1hp it will only ever effect 1 creature and then die. Unless it is buffed.

Otherwise, just trust me. It is extremely under-powered as it is. Sure, it's some cheap Creature Control card that does a bit of poison and a stasis effect... But CC also stands for Crowd Control... which is usually applied to cards such as Rain of Fire or Thunderstorm, and sometimes an Otyugh or Eagle Eye (because they can, over time, kill lots of creatures).

If you were to make this card work like a 'Gravity Pull' effect (for grounded creatures) ie. just like Armaggio. Then it has the potential to be really useful. But, it would only gain this potential from being in a Duo or Trio deck. It is balanced, because it only effects Grounded creatures.

The reason I am laboring this point is because... it is rare that someone will try and kill you with only 2 or 3 creatures. The Sea Urchin (as it is) can only ever stop 1 attack per turn. So you will need 6 in play to stop 6 attacks per turn.  And you would have to buff them repeatedly to keep enjoying this pause in incoming attacks.

Compare this to a Sundial - which stops ALL attacks for 1 turn.

If it were to work like an Armaggio (but take 1 damage per attacker), you could buff a Sea Urchin with a Basilisks Blood, Blessing, or Plate Armor and then it alone can stop a wave of attacks. This would give Water a few synergy options. Not to mention a very nice way of dealing with Immaterial and Immortal attackers.

My final question would be, what about Momentum creatures? Gravity Pull works like a 'Shield Effect' which Momentum ignores. I suggest - for further balance - that a Momentum'd creature ignore a Sea Urchin - my reasoning is that it is under such a momentum that a prick from a sea urchin will not stop it from attacking.

[the Sage]

The reason I am laboring this point is because... it is rare that someone will try and kill you with only 2 or 3 creatures. The Sea Urchin (as it is) can only ever stop 1 attack per turn. So you will need 6 in play to stop 6 attacks per turn.  And you would have to buff them repeatedly to keep enjoying this pause in incoming attacks.

Well, you can play more than one; they can stop 1 attack per turn per creature, AND they will kill.
I guess that if you want to affect up to 12 creatures every turn, you could play 6 buffed versions of these. (because it also stalls for 1 turn, you only need one every other attack).
What I could do is change it so that the CURRENT attack is stopped, and the creature is infected. This  makes sense in terms of mechanics and allows a creature to be stopped every turn instead of every other turn. It does not, however, prevent the use of abililties, which delay does.

If it were to work like an Armaggio (but take 1 damage per attacker), you could buff a Sea Urchin with a Basilisks Blood, Blessing, or Plate Armor and then it alone can stop a wave of attacks. This would give Water a few synergy options. Not to mention a very nice way of dealing with Immaterial and Immortal attackers.

This would make it better than Armagio. I think that's a bit much for a 1 creature.

My final question would be, what about Momentum creatures? Gravity Pull works like a 'Shield Effect' which Momentum ignores. I suggest - for further balance - that a Momentum'd creature ignore a Sea Urchin - my reasoning is that it is under such a momentum that a prick from a sea urchin will not stop it from attacking.

Agreed. Momentum bypasses this.