Red Herring | Red Herring

[Xenocidius]

On topic: I just find that this card messes too much with Steam Machine. They have lower cost than both, and their HPs are as high as their respective counterparts. At least Steam Machine has the thematic excuse for resilience, being that giant robots don't break easily. But a dead fish?

Also, I don't see why it's a Water card, as you never find red herrings anywhere close to the water. If the themes were split like this, then Skeleton would be a Life card! The mechanic doesn't have anything to do with Water, too. I'd much rather see this as a Darkness, Aether, or Other card.

True. You're the second person who's complained about the high HP, so I've lowered it. It's resilient enough to most forms of CC anyway. By the way, who said it was dead?

It's a Water card because it's a fish. Sure, 'Red Herring' is only an expression that originated from an animal, but a similar thing can be said of Schrödinger's Cat.

1) The card in question is somewhat similar to an Archived card. Archived cards are not to be repeated. Hence this is necessary.

In contrast, I believe that Archived cards are fair game if the maker of the original idea has been inactive. Otherwise, it is merely good etiquette to ask the maker of the original idea if you can "remake" the card.

There is a difference between repeatedly sending a card through the polls until it is not archived and remaking an archived card in a significantly different manner. The polls are meant to weed out lesser ideas.
Hence the necessity of determining if there is a significant or insignificant difference.

Patch is correct.

Often the underlying mechanic may be good but the implementation is clumsy (I believe this to be the case for Graviton Spellcaller). Simplifying and improving the mechanic/implementation can make it appeal to voters (and Zanzarino) more.

[OldTrees]

1) The card in question is somewhat similar to an Archived card. Archived cards are not to be repeated. Hence this is necessary.

In contrast, I believe that Archived cards are fair game if the maker of the original idea has been inactive. Otherwise, it is merely good etiquette to ask the maker of the original idea if you can "remake" the card.

There is a difference between repeatedly sending a card through the polls until it is not archived and remaking an archived card in a significantly different manner. The polls are meant to weed out lesser ideas.
Hence the necessity of determining if there is a significant or insignificant difference.

Patch is correct.

Often the underlying mechanic may be good but the implementation is clumsy (I believe this to be the case for Graviton Spellcaller). Simplifying and improving the mechanic/implementation can make it appeal to voters (and Zanzarino) more.

Please read my position carefully. You probably misunderstood it.
I said:
One should not repeat archived cards unless there has been significant change. (aka what you are calling "Simplifying and improving") If the change is insignificant then it is not significantly different than repeating the exact same card. However when the change is significant then it is significantly different than repeating the exact same card.
Remake = ok
Repeat = taboo
The question of whether the difference is significant determines if it is a Remake or a Repeat. That is why the question is important.

[Xenocidius]

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure if you considered "simplifying and improving" a significant change. In that case, I agree with you.

Now, any more feedback on the card itself?

[Powerfrog]

Looks like a decent card that has situational uses making it better and worse than similar CC prevention already in the game. Great.

Would this include creature skills such as the virus' poison? Would it include positive things like blessing/chaos power?

I think a better change would be to make upgraded 1/4 and 2 quanta. Leave unupped as it is. This trades some tank ability for cheapness to replace, as 6 hp is a little high, and 3 quanta is a little high for a 1/4 creature.

Also: Possibly make field attacks direct to the fish for all creatures on the field. For example, you have 3 creatures and opponent plays rain of fire. Fish takes 2 hits and 3rd creature takes a hit. Boost herring's HP to absorb all the blows. Just a suggestion...

[Drake_XIV]

Just for technicality, Virus' have Infection, not Poison.

I think in an earlier post, Xeno mentioned that the Red Herring would be the only target-able creature on the owner's side of the field, so things like Blessing and Chaos Power, assuming the opponent is using them for their creatures, can be used on any viable card on their side of the field.

[OldTrees]

Just to clairify:
I agree that Red Herring is significantly different due to the numerous differences in targeting interactions between it and the closest comparison.