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Offline Glitch

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52363#msg52363
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 09:04:49 pm »
With this card, why would you ever use pillars?

Six of these, six lycanthropes, and a dark mark make for the most brutal rush deck ever.

killfer8

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52368#msg52368
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 09:12:55 pm »
Nova/Quantum Rush, QT/Quantum Rush make the cost negligible. This is basically a Dark Ritual (https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Tempest/Dark%20Ritual.jpg) with the added benefit of gaining a pillar of your mark, which is a HUGE benefit. I would abuse the heck out of this card.
That is a MTG card? if it is then my cousing left a ton at my house and i dont know how to play them

dragonhuman

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52384#msg52384
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 09:44:40 pm »
thats why it seems familiar, meh never used dark ritual

note magic and elements are similar yet different (magic doesn't store mana, and no auto producing mana else mana burn happens)

Kaine

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52416#msg52416
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2010, 10:47:28 pm »
I think it is a really interesting card. It would help all Duo decks, since they don't need to put in pillars of the mark element, as they can cast them with this card.
Life rush will be great in FFQ decks... Life mark, get your quantum & tower, spawn flies, cast miracle/lances.
Same with gravity mark, pharaoh deck.
Or aether mark, fractal decks! Like the devourer deck for example.

But what happens if you have, for example  :time mark and you play stone rush? do you get 3 :earth and a  :time tower? And can you have 6 Entropic rush and 6 Water rush in your deck at the same time? That's the only critisism I have. As that can be abused with novas.

BTW: I always liked Dark Ritual, but I never played black so I never got to use it.

Kael Hate

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52517#msg52517
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 03:25:24 am »
this seems way overpowered, why carry pillars when you could carry this for much better?
You can only carry six rush compared to unlimited pillars and you cannot play it without a quanta to spend so the net gain is only 1 for playing the card over a pillar and you may have to wait past the first turn to play the rush. In its Upgraded version and amongst other towers you get a net gain of 2 straight away.

Problem is the pillar always matches your mark so you have another stack to protect if running towers, you cannot use a Quantum tower in that slot for Rainbow. If using your mark to fuel an off activator you cannot get the tower you need for you main fuel.

Yes you want to use this card over pillars in some situations especially Mono and Duo.

but then again have an upped tower and this and then youve got plenty of mana, its like super nova but giving you only mana you want then giving you a pillar
You have no Mana in Elements.
Nova gives 12 Quanta gain for 1 card use. Immediate Net Gain 12
Rush gives you 3 Quanta gain and 1 until end of game at a cost of 2. Immediate Net gain 1.

Nova fills all Quanta types, Rush only fills 1 or 2. The pillar is locked to your mark so you are already producing that anyhow and the Rushed Quanta has to be a match with what you need at the time. It can be more useful than Nova but it will not replace nova.


Nova/Quantum Rush, QT/Quantum Rush make the cost negligible. This is basically a Dark Ritual (https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Tempest/Dark%20Ritual.jpg) with the added benefit of gaining a pillar of your mark, which is a HUGE benefit. I would abuse the heck out of this card.
It is similar to Dark Ritual but the Ritual is always Acceleration in an environment where the first turn always limits you to one resource. In elements you can drop as many pillars as you like and a open start with 6 pillars will give you a massive head start. Playing the rush trades card advantage for clean quanta production and slight acceleration. This already exists with Photon/Immolation, Nova, Super Nova. I know that its faster than the current normal for Mono|Duo, it was designed that way. I don't think its faster than the Pillars Power starts we already have. If it is can you show me a deck to test with please?

With this card, why would you ever use pillars?

Six of these, six lycanthropes, and a dark mark make for the most brutal rush deck ever.
6 Supernova and 6 Werewolf and a Entropy mark and even the Precurser Nova and Lycanthrope is just as fast. Still not as fast as Immolate|Photon on top. Wait thats the 4 turn winning deck I already use against the AI3.

But what happens if you have, for example  :time mark and you play stone rush? do you get 3 :earth and a  :time tower? And can you have 6 Entropic rush and 6 Water rush in your deck at the same time? That's the only critisism I have. As that can be abused with novas.
Yes your example of 3 :earth and a :time tower is correct.

Yes you can have 6 of each if you really want 12 pillars matching you mark and a temporary 18 Entropy and 18 Water Quanta. Note that as each rush burns random quanta you could lose the quanta you rushed from a previous card. In this example there  is also a spenditure of 24 random quanta.

Offline jmizzle7

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52547#msg52547
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2010, 05:57:55 am »
Well, if I had a way to actually test non-existent cards, I would show you a decklist, but the first thing that came to mind was flying Discords with Black Hole. Most of the time the deck relies solely on the mark to power its gravity spells, but this would enable the deck to cast them sooner and more often.

Kael Hate

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52650#msg52650
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2010, 01:26:21 pm »
Well, if I had a way to actually test non-existent cards, I would show you a decklist, but the first thing that came to mind was flying Discords with Black Hole. Most of the time the deck relies solely on the mark to power its gravity spells, but this would enable the deck to cast them sooner and more often.
I like the idea. Are you using it in a purely PVP stance or agaisnt all levels of AI too?

I test the cards by running them through an excel version of the game, User has to do all the steps and actions for the AI and such but it shows you what cards you draw. I also have various decks of playtest cards in real life so I just write on what they are and away I go playing both sides and if random is required, use a generator I have for calculating things. Both slower than a trainer but they work. Its what most of my teams used when I was working on Magic, L5r and Warlord card design testing.

Offline jmizzle7

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52652#msg52652
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2010, 01:32:58 pm »
Yeah, about playtesting, I just don't have that kind of time anymore. I'm a college student and I have two jobs, not including my volunteering on the forums. If I had an app like that it would help a lot, but I don't, so I just tested it from a hypothetical standpoint in the trainer, using Cremations as proxies for your proposed card. I think it's pretty strong, but not insanely powerful. I would test it in every format possible, because I have used an existing Discord/BH deck to win on all playing levels, from PvP to False Gods.

Kael Hate

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52697#msg52697
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2010, 03:34:37 pm »
Yeah, about playtesting, I just don't have that kind of time anymore. I'm a college student and I have two jobs, not including my volunteering on the forums. If I had an app like that it would help a lot, but I don't, so I just tested it from a hypothetical standpoint in the trainer, using Cremations as proxies for your proposed card. I think it's pretty strong, but not insanely powerful. I would test it in every format possible, because I have used an existing Discord/BH deck to win on all playing levels, from PvP to False Gods.
I'll take some time after work to build a friendly version if you'd like. Would you use it? It'll be dirty, but I could make refinements as we go if you need it to do something more.

Offline jmizzle7

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg52826#msg52826
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2010, 08:20:01 pm »
Yeah, about playtesting, I just don't have that kind of time anymore. I'm a college student and I have two jobs, not including my volunteering on the forums. If I had an app like that it would help a lot, but I don't, so I just tested it from a hypothetical standpoint in the trainer, using Cremations as proxies for your proposed card. I think it's pretty strong, but not insanely powerful. I would test it in every format possible, because I have used an existing Discord/BH deck to win on all playing levels, from PvP to False Gods.
I'll take some time after work to build a friendly version if you'd like. Would you use it? It'll be dirty, but I could make refinements as we go if you need it to do something more.
Sure, PM me.

Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg53808#msg53808
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2010, 07:22:49 pm »
I like the idea, but I think that gaining 3 quanta and a pillar is to strong for only a cost of 2/1 quanta. I don't have the time to test it but I think that this card would speed up rushdecks like life, graboid, lykantrophie or poison a little bit to much. ( Every element gets this card, right?)
The reason for that is that this card fuels itself like supernova but dont give the disandvantage of removing a tower by many decks.

I would say that a decreasing the gained quanta to 2 should be enough to give mono- and duodecks a good boost.




I'm hope I could help and I'm sorry for possible faults in the text.
Schattenfresser

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Re: Quantum Rush | Quantum Rush https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5174.msg54173#msg54173
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2010, 12:36:43 pm »
I like the idea, but I think that gaining 3 quanta and a pillar is to strong for only a cost of 2/1 quanta. I don't have the time to test it but I think that this card would speed up rushdecks like life, graboid, lykantrophie or poison a little bit to much. ( Every element gets this card, right?)
The reason for that is that this card fuels itself like supernova but dont give the disandvantage of removing a tower by many decks.

I would say that a decreasing the gained quanta to 2 should be enough to give mono- and duodecks a good boost.

I'm hope I could help and I'm sorry for possible faults in the text.
Schattenfresser
The value of 3 is critical to the turnover of quanta being correct to cast out of element cards. It is plausible that the single quanta windfall is too much and increase the speed of the game by too much. In this case to balance we would increase the deployment cost.

 

blarg: