Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 07:13:26 am

Title: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 07:13:26 am
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg829/scaled.php?server=829&filename=psio.png&res=landing)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg228/scaled.php?server=228&filename=psiupped.png&res=landing)
NAME:
Psi
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
9 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The cost to play it will equal to the damage all enemy creatures take +2.
NAME:
Psi
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
10 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The cost to play it will equal to the damage all enemy creatures take +3.

ART:
Anonymous
IDEA:
Anonymous
NOTES:
I haven't done computer art it a long time. Please let me know on how to improve it. The image at plasma pink is the majuscule Greek letter Psi.
SERIES:
Sigil Series. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42603.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42603.0.html)
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 03, 2012, 08:59:30 am
Aether creatures valid for Psi: Spark, Phase Spider, Psion, Nymph and Flying Lobo.
Aether creatures used with Psi: Spark.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 09:12:28 am
Yes, I have considered that sparks could be sacrificed too. But it overall sounds balanced right?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 03, 2012, 09:31:39 am
Yes, I have considered that sparks could be sacrificed too. But it overall sounds balanced right?
Balanced?
Yes.

However:
1) Despite having 5 valid partners it only has 1 partner that would be used. This is similar to a forced combo problem.
2) Significant overlap with Rain of Fire.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Pineapple on August 03, 2012, 09:35:12 am
Yes, I have considered that sparks could be sacrificed too. But it overall sounds balanced right?

The thing is that spark is basically the only card that can be used for this, since you don't factor in the sacrfice's stats (like by scaling damage to sacrifice's ATK).

The dilemma is if you balance this for spark, it won't be used for other creatures*, and if you balance this for other creatures, it'll be overpowered with spark.

I'm assuming this is a spell card?

*This is the optimal balance for this type of card, see Immolation | Cremation.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 09:37:20 am
First, yes this is a spell card.

Secondly, I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean you want me to not allow sparks to be sacrified?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 03, 2012, 09:44:10 am
First, yes this is a spell card.

Secondly, I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean you want me to not allow sparks to be sacrified?
We want you to design the card such that there are 3 or more cards that would, in practice, be sacrificed by Psi.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 09:50:56 am
How about this:

Target one of your  :aether creatures. It is killed the next turn and does 4 damage to all enemy creatures.

So in this case, spark can't be used, because it has to wait a turn before it can be activated, but it will be destroyed by the end of the turn already.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 03, 2012, 09:53:25 am
How about this:

Target one of your  :aether creatures. It is killed the next turn and does 4 damage to all enemy creatures.

So in this case, spark can't be used, because it has to wait a turn before it can be activated, but it will be destroyed by the end of the turn already.
That would cause Phase Spider and Psion to be used. (Spark can't be used and both Lobo and the Nymph are more expensive)
That is 2 cards which is an improvement from 1 card. Can you reach 3 or more cards?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 10:00:07 am
How about this:

Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The  :aether quanta required to summon it will equal to the number of damages all your enemy creatures will intake +2.

I know it is too long for card text. But better?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 03, 2012, 10:34:58 am
I personally wouldn't use it with Spark and do you know why? Becuase:
1) I never use Sparks in my deck.
2) I wouldn't rely to Psi|Psi as a primary strategy of my deck, but as a secondary one instead. Let's say I play a mono-Aether rush with Psions, Phase Spiders, Fractals, Dim Shields and a few Psi. My opponent Plays with, let's say, a Scarab swarming deck and I am in danger of having all of my creatures devoured by them. So, I use 1 Psi and sacrifice 1 Psion or 1 Phase Spider in order to kill all the Scarabs before their hp exceed 4, and if I have a Lightning in my hand I can also kill the opponent's Pharaoh (4 mass CC damage + 5 single CC damage = 9 single CC damage = bye Pharaoh).
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 03, 2012, 10:54:04 am
True, but that is why it costs a lot of  :aether quanta.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: moomoose on August 03, 2012, 02:06:24 pm
i agree it would be nice for aether to have an aoe spell, but im not sure sacrifice is an appropriate path to wind down for aether, i would encourage you to think up other potential novel alternative mechanics to incorporate. 
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 03, 2012, 02:20:42 pm
How about this:

Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The  :aether quanta required to summon it will equal to the number of damages all your enemy creatures will intake +2.

I know it is too long for card text. But better?
Something to that effect would work.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: odideph on August 03, 2012, 06:46:35 pm
My only concern is that 5 damage is a hell of a lot. Against :fire for example, if you use 2 of these the same turn, the only things that could survive are both conditional: Lava golem that grew for at least 5 turns, or a Seraph with immaterial activated. Against :life, everything dies. Against unupped :entropy, just 1 is enough to kill all creatures (not including high HP mutants). And you could do that 6 times?

Yes it costs alot, but it could easily be used in a mono-aether.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 04, 2012, 05:35:01 am
What about just:
Sacrifice one of your creatures. Deal damage equal to the ATK of the sacrificed creature to each enemy creature.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 04, 2012, 06:12:29 am
What about just:
Sacrifice one of your creatures. Deal damage equal to the ATK of the sacrificed creature to each enemy creature.

Go go go Ruby Dragon & Psi 15 mass CC damage decks!!! :P
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: furballdn on August 04, 2012, 06:23:51 am
What about just:
Sacrifice one of your creatures. Deal damage equal to the ATK of the sacrificed creature to each enemy creature.

Go go go Ruby Dragon & Psi 15 mass CC damage decks!!! :P
12 :aether + 12 :fire + 1 turn +2 cards + sacrificing a dragon for a few RoFs? Only the first few RoFs really matter.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 04, 2012, 06:46:32 am
What about just:
Sacrifice one of your creatures. Deal damage equal to the ATK of the sacrificed creature to each enemy creature.

Go go go Ruby Dragon & Psi 15 mass CC damage decks!!! :P
12 :aether + 12 :fire + 1 turn +2 cards + sacrificing a dragon for a few RoFs? Only the first few RoFs really matter.

I said this makes 15 damage mass CC possible, it will wipe out every enemy creature at once, except Massive Dragons, Armagios|Elite Armagios, Voodoo Dolls and Flying Titans. Now, seeing an army of upgraded Steam Machines or unupgraded Colossal Dragons (creatures with 15 hp) to be killed all instantly, I don't think it is the most balanced thing. Even an upped Spark would produce a 5 damage mass CC spell...
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 08:10:03 am
i agree it would be nice for aether to have an aoe spell, but im not sure sacrifice is an appropriate path to wind down for aether, i would encourage you to think up other potential novel alternative mechanics to incorporate.
Then what sort of mechanism do you suggest? (Because I also thought of removing the immateriality of the creatures, but that too, seems not aether-like)

Alright, so do you guys want me to make this more expensive or something?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 04, 2012, 08:43:16 am
^ It is alrady expensive enough. I don't think the problem is its price, I think we have to decide which kind of mass CC damage is normal and which is broken. Is mass-CC damage of 4 normal? Is mass-CC damage of 5 normal? Is mass-CC damage of 6 normal? etc.
 Personally, I think mass-CC damage of 4 is normal, but not above this. I may accept mass-CC damage of 5 but only within reason and limitations. I wouldn't accept mass-CC of 6 or more even if the card costed 75 :aether and 99 life points at the same time (just an exaggerated example to show my disapproval).
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 08:47:06 am

Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The  :aether quanta required to summon it will equal to the number of damages all your enemy creatures will intake +2.

This is what I'm currently suggesting. However, I haven't posted this instead of the previous one is because I don't think everyone quite agrees with this one yet.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 04, 2012, 08:54:31 am

Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The  :aether quanta required to summon it will equal to the number of damages all your enemy creatures will intake +2.

This is what I'm currently suggesting. However, I haven't posted this instead of the previous one is because I don't think everyone quite agrees with this one yet.

Dear AnonymousRevival, I don't think it is possible for everyone to agree with a certain mechanic. Because of this, I suggest you to either put a poll with all the suggestions and change the card according to poll's results OR make Psi|Psi as you like it to be and not as me, Moomoose, Furballdn, Oldtrees, Eaglgenes101, Odidepth or anyone else wants it to be.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Annele on August 04, 2012, 09:06:35 am

Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The  :aether quanta required to summon it will equal to the number of damages all your enemy creatures will intake +2.

This is what I'm currently suggesting. However, I haven't posted this instead of the previous one is because I don't think everyone quite agrees with this one yet.

One simple psion would do 6 damage to each opponent creature.


Also, could you fill out the table completely? And an image would be easier on the eyes.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 09:12:29 am
Just uploaded it. Yes, psion can do 6 damage, but the cost is 16 :aether quanta for unupped 14 :aether quanta for upped, so I think it is reasonable, at least for me anyways.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: odideph on August 04, 2012, 11:35:50 am
I can see you made it less efficient with Sparks (can't remember why/if that was needed). But now Elite Phase Dragon is a nuclear bomb, and this is all still mono-aether.
The one reason why i would upvote this in crucible would be to blow up SoFos that already used accretion (or have gravity pull).
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 01:18:26 pm
Elite Phase Dragon cannot be targeted.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: odideph on August 04, 2012, 01:54:21 pm
Oh right, well that's a good thing.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 02:22:08 pm
So is this ready for the crucible?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Calindu on August 04, 2012, 02:38:19 pm
The Nymph would still kill almost everything.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 02:40:59 pm
True. But it requires 18 :aether quanta even for the upped one. Furthermore, it is ultra rare and you have to sacrifice it, which is a huge asset to pay.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: moomoose on August 04, 2012, 03:09:31 pm
i did not have an idea in mind, just suggested you look for something along the lines of being based off # of cards in hand (this idea is taken/being used, this is just an example), something novel, not super complicated, but interesting.

also, based on the current card text, i cant even know what this does anymore.

"Sacrifice one of your aether creatures. The summoning cost will equal to the damage all enemy creatures take +2."

okay, sacrifice a creature... but the summoning cost of what? what am i summoning?  a creature- what creature?  a spell- what does the spell do? does the 'summoning' cost increase if i damage creatures with spells/abilities? etc, etc, it is unplayably unclear as is.  It is one thing to see "this will mutate a creature" and ask "what *exactly* is a mutation?" it's quite another to see "Sacrifice x and summoning cost is all damage to enemy creatures +2", which leads to a myriad of questions.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 03:16:42 pm
I know, but the card text is limited. What I meant to say is that the cost in summoning the creature which ends up being sacrificed equals to the damage all enemy creatures take +2. So if you sacrifice a spark, because it costs nothing to summon, the damage that all enemy creatures take is 2. For flying lobo it will be 5 et cetera.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: moomoose on August 04, 2012, 03:21:58 pm
my rule of thumb when making cards is if you cant fit enough to know what it is really on the card text, even after using the smallest words as possible and the sentence structures as concise as possible- its too complicated and needs to be either simplified, have mechanics replaced, or be scrapped altogether.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 04, 2012, 03:33:08 pm
The cost required to summon your aether creature which is sacrificed determines the damage all enemy creatures take +2.

How about this?
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 02:09:48 pm
Sorry, couldn't modify my post. Added my own computer art. Tell me what you think of it and how to improve on it thanks.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2012, 03:08:57 pm
I personally do not like how it is limited to :aether creatures only.

Considering the costs and damages, I'd lower the cost of this down to 6|5, as compared to RoF's initial 3 damage to all enemy creatures.  The cost of the creatures, as well as card costs, will compensate for the cost.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 04:18:52 pm
The reason why only :aether creatures are sacrificed is because otherwise people would sacrifice dragons mass cc damage, eliminating all any creatures.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2012, 04:20:26 pm
True, but regardless of what it effects, I feel the cost still needs to be dropped appropriately.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 04:29:19 pm
A simple phase spider can deal 4 damage to all enemy creatures bear that in mind.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 06, 2012, 04:29:46 pm
The reason why only :aether creatures are sacrificed is because otherwise people would sacrifice dragons mass cc damage, eliminating all any creatures.
It was limited to :aether creatures before it had scaling damage
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 04:32:11 pm
Once a dragon is sacrificed.........mass overkill.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2012, 04:33:29 pm
Once a dragon is sacrificed.........mass overkill.

But overpriced and might as well be playing two RoFs for more or less the same effect.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 04:39:39 pm
Alright, maybe it can drop down by one or two. But still I think it should be limited to aether creatures only.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2012, 04:40:46 pm
Meh, still think it should drop to at least 7 to compare to Rain of Fire...
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 06, 2012, 04:56:54 pm
Alright, i will think about it.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OdinVanguard on August 06, 2012, 05:27:17 pm
The wording on the card seems a little confusing to me, but I think I get the idea now after reading other posts here.

Maybe try rewording it to something like: "Sacrifice an aether creatures. Enemy creatures take damage equal to the sacrificed creature's cost +2."
That would be a little more clear.
You don't need to use "sacrifice one of your..." since sacrifice mechanic implies that the target is a creature you own automatically (it saves a bit of precious text space on the card that way)

The concept is interesting though. It gives aether some very ugly CC potential. I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

The artwork is very cool by the way.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 07, 2012, 12:38:33 am
The wording on the card seems a little confusing to me, but I think I get the idea now after reading other posts here.

Maybe try rewording it to something like: "Sacrifice an aether creatures. Enemy creatures take damage equal to the sacrificed creature's cost +2."
That would be a little more clear.
You don't need to use "sacrifice one of your..." since sacrifice mechanic implies that the target is a creature you own automatically (it saves a bit of precious text space on the card that way)

The concept is interesting though. It gives aether some very ugly CC potential. I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

The artwork is very cool by the way.

Sacrifice an......This means that I can sacrifice your aether creature assuming you're my opponent. This is why it has to be sacrifice one of your.....
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 07, 2012, 01:27:37 am
No, Sacrifice in EtG is strictly limited to your side.  See Immoaltion | Cremation.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: ddevans96 on August 07, 2012, 01:30:48 am
No, Sacrifice in EtG is strictly limited to your side.  See Immoaltion | Cremation.

Is does not mean must be. Imagine a card like immo that could target an opponent's creature and give the opponent the quanta.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OdinVanguard on August 07, 2012, 01:35:33 am
True... but for purposes of clarity, Immolation is the point of reference since it is already in the game and is pretty well known.

Since immolate states "Sacrifice a creature" and only allows the owner's creatures as targets, it stands to reason that this would hold elsewhere unless stated otherwise.

Thus, if a "sacrifice"  effect could apply to the enemy, it would have to explicitly state that on the card. Otherwise owner only targeting would be assumed.

Mainly I suggested this reward so there would be more room to fully describe the effect on the card. That gave a little more room to describe other facets that needed a little more explanation.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: odideph on August 07, 2012, 01:37:20 am
A sacrifice is something that harms you in some way, or requires that you do something unpleasant... You may sacrifice some game time to get more work time, for example. This is why the word Sacrifice means the creature must be yours. This is also why Shard of Sacrifice couldn't be about the enemy's HP.

There is another word for when you can make any creature disappear ("any" as in, yours or the enemy's), and that word is "kill". See Maxwell's Demon.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 07, 2012, 01:41:01 am
No, Sacrifice in EtG is strictly limited to your side.  See Immoaltion | Cremation.

Is does not mean must be. Imagine a card like immo that could target an opponent's creature and give the opponent the quanta.

As Odin points out, for the time being, that is what Sacrifice currently entails. 

A sacrifice is something that harms you in some way, or requires that you do something unpleasant... You may sacrifice some game time to get more work time, for example. This is why the word Sacrifice means the creature must be yours. This is also why Shard of Sacrifice couldn't be about the enemy's HP.

There is another word for when you can make any creature disappear ("any" as in, yours or the enemy's), and that word is "kill". See Maxwell's Demon.

Yes, Sacrifice denots something in your possession being taken, not another's.  For those who can, I deter to YuGiOh mechanics.  You cannot sacrifice a creature on your opponent's side.  But this is a different game and has less impact.

That [Kill] is viable as well, but that in itself requires denoting the side of the field.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: AnonymousRevival on August 07, 2012, 01:41:26 am
Oh yeah.....what's wrong with me today lol?

sacrifice in Latin is sacrificium from sacer(holy) and facere(to do). So it literally means "to make holy".
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 07, 2012, 01:44:40 am
Yay, Latin...
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: OldTrees on August 07, 2012, 02:09:40 am
The wording on the card seems a little confusing to me, but I think I get the idea now after reading other posts here.

Maybe try rewording it to something like: "Sacrifice an aether creatures. Enemy creatures take damage equal to the sacrificed creature's cost +2."
That would be a little more clear.
You don't need to use "sacrifice one of your..." since sacrifice mechanic implies that the target is a creature you own automatically (it saves a bit of precious text space on the card that way)

The concept is interesting though. It gives aether some very ugly CC potential. I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

The artwork is very cool by the way.

Sacrifice an......This means that I can sacrifice your aether creature assuming you're my opponent. This is why it has to be sacrifice one of your.....
Sacrifice implies you possess the thing being sacrificed. This is because the "you control" is implied.
Title: Re: Psi | Psi
Post by: Annele on August 16, 2012, 05:13:21 am
CURATOR COMMENT

This card will not be permitted into the Crucible due to one or more of the following errors:


Correct these errors as soon as possible and feel free to submit again when ready.

Thank you. ^_^


If a card is in a series, it requires a hyperlink to the series topic. If there is no series topic thread, or it is not in a series, it must be left blank.
blarg: