Prophecy | Revelation

[moomoose]

the primary element of sun dial is , just as the primary element of fallen elf is , the primary element is still strongly represented in the respective cards.

poison is an exception, given its expanded use throughout the game.  but keep in mind the poison exception was made by zanz, not by a user, and it should stay that way.  giving light a better version of precognition feels so fundamentally wrong.  it would be like giving life a better version of mutation, where the player can pick which mutant they want to form from a list of possibilities.

[Hyroen]

Considering that Shard of Bravery expanded the mechanic of draw rushing to even Fire goes to show that zanzarino -wants- the game to expand. If we have certain mechanics or offshoots of them to only certain elements it constricts the game and makes the finite list of card ideas that can be made -much- faster to finish.

It is not too crazy to say that where Light illuminates your path, Darkness makes it obscure and unknown. In the same way, while Light is often assigned the role of the altruistic element, it could be seen that because of this altruistic way, a higher power allows for the element to transcend the limited view of others.

Of course, that's not to say that any mechanic could be given to any element, but to conceive that Light can let you see more is not too far-fetched.

[moomoose]

again, who made the exception- zanz.  when you are designing a card and it takes a primary mechanic from one element and puts it into another, ask yourself 1 question "am i zanz?" if the answer is no, figure out a way to incorporate the element into the card in some fashion. 

otherwise, lets go ahead and make a water card that does a better version of reverse time, and a time card that does a better version of adrenaline.

[Naesala]

again, who made the exception- zanz.  when you are designing a card and it takes a primary mechanic from one element and puts it into another, ask yourself 1 question "am i zanz?" if the answer is no, figure out a way to incorporate the element into the card in some fashion. 

otherwise, lets go ahead and make a water card that does a better version of reverse time, and a time card that does a better version of adrenaline.

Since its zanz who lets these cards into the game ANYWAYS, I see no harm in it provided there is sufficient justification(there is). Why not have a time card that works like adrenaline by speeding your creatures up? whats the harm? The forums wont explode, the card wont get in the game, and if it does, zanz will have approved it. Zanz wants to expand, the forum wants to expand, so lets expand.

[moomoose]

the harm? its repugnant and poorly thought out card ideas such as a time card that will make a creature attack 4 times per turn (regardless of attack value) will advance through the voting process while balanced, well thought out ideas would linger in level 1 and possibly be archived.  explode? no.  stagnate, more likely.

[OldTrees]

It is important to use reason to justify deviations. Sufficient evidence will justify putting mechanics into new yet fitting elements.

Poison is a few steps removed from the core theme of death and would be to predictable in death. However it was always justified by the creature's nature. The first non death poisons were in water. Poisonous fish do exist in real life. Later scorpions were added. Again the growing/mental poison fit the elements involved AND  death quanta was still the king of poison.

@Hyroen
Shard of Bravery uses card drawing inside the black box. The themed effect is shortening the final clock on the game and giving both sides more resources. Not a theme of card advantage.

See more and see earlier are not linked in your post. You make a good case for seeing the opponents hand being in Light but it is currently insufficient to explain seeing a future event earlier.

[Naesala]

the harm? its repugnant and poorly thought out card ideas such as a time card that will make a creature attack 4 times per turn (regardless of attack value) will advance through the voting process while balanced, well thought out ideas would linger in level 1 and possibly be archived.  explode? no.  stagnate, more likely.

That's both a ridiculous assumption and an insult to the card creator, to call his creation "repugnant". I doubt attempts to expand ideas are going to stagnate the forums at all. If its overpowered, that is what must be addressed, NOT the fact that oh, its just not the element thats supposed to do this best. If your problem is with how much the card does, address that, not the fact that it isnt time element. Making a card thematically "better" doesnt alter its function in the game.

[OldTrees]

Making a card thematically "better" doesnt alter its function in the game.

Changing the element of a card can have significant effects.

[Naesala]

Making a card thematically "better" doesnt alter its function in the game.

Changing the element of a card can have significant effects.

Poorly written, sorry.
Prior to being in the game, the element of choice is decided based on 1)thematic 2)Comboing with other cards in said element and common duos/trios/etc. If the change is just done for the thematic, it doesnt wildly impact the game itself. If its done for interaction with other cards, it does have an impact (for better or worse).

[Hyroen]

@Hyroen
Shard of Bravery uses card drawing inside the black box. The themed effect is shortening the final clock on the game and giving both sides more resources. Not a theme of card advantage.

See more and see earlier are not linked in your post. You make a good case for seeing the opponents hand being in Light but it is currently insufficient to explain seeing a future event earlier.

I never mentioned that Shard of Bravery expanded Fire's themes to include Card Advantage, I know what the Shard does and am well aware it's not considered card advantage. What I did mention was "draw rushing", and didn't specify for which player.

The concept of Bravery is fleshed out through the Shard such that you must face whatever is coming -now-, and being able to launch your assault first, should you gain one.

The concept of drawing cards, or exploring the deck for that matter, is one that is not limited to Time. As we have seen before through the inclusion of Mindgate, the deck is seen as the "mind" of the player, and while Precognition allows you to see what is coming in the future, it does not mean that it is solidly and irrevocably a part of the future. If the deck is truly the mind of a player, of course, seeing in the future will allow you to see what, as an elemental, you will do next. This does not however limit the exploration of the deck to seeing the future. When the element is appropriately applied, deck manipulation can be applied to many more elements than just Time, etc.

Death for example, can be used as an element for card advantage. When you deck out, does an elemental die? Is there loss of some sort? Perhaps there could be a Death card that draws as many cards as possible but sets your deck to 0. It's not impossible to think of how an element relates to not only the future of the match, but the mind and existence of the elemental, and in light of this I think that as a Revelation or an Epiphany, this card holds its ground perfectly.

[OldTrees]

@Hyroen
I was expanding on your Shard of Bravery point. Not contradicting it. Rather I was highlighting the concept that mechanics sometimes are used merely as functions rather than being related to their normal theme.

However Revelation does use drawing in its normal theme. The question is whether that theme is available to mono . It is possible but I feel the links are not complete yet.

@Naesala
The consistency of themes will not mechanically impact the game. However it is what determines the strength of the players' suspension of disbelief. A subtle aspect, but very real.

[moomoose]

if SoB were suggested by a user I would make the same argument against it, i believe i made mention of it somewhere in the SoB thread- but it was made by zanz, not a user, so its moot there.  and if anything it could be rationalized that there is an 'other' card for just about every function in the game, be it healing, dealing damage, blocking damage, creating creatures, PC, etc, so draw acceleration could be the next step in that direction.

mindgate is not draw acceleration, its card copying, something firmly in aether's domain with fractal and PU.

this card is essentially a precognition that allows you to pick one from your future cards rather than just the most forthcoming, if anything it should be a time card in some fashion- either by using only time quanta or incorporating time quanta in the use in some way, or even in the "buff this card" section for a potential improvement to precognition.  making it a non-time card outshines time's niche, especially given that it was the spell given to the time nymph to use.