Prophecy | Revelation

[OdinVanguard]

Gods granting foresight into the future seems pretty light-ish to me. Also prophets feel pretty light element.

No Christianity in Elements, please. Angel's a stretch as it is, but the angel itself can be an independent symbol.

Besides, this overshadows Precog in lots of ways. :/

As some others already mentioned, prophecy is a fairly generic term. It isn't aimed at being a reference to any particular religion, real or made up.
As for overshadowing precog, note that precog reveals info that is hidden only from you to you. This is something of a double edged sword since your opponent sees what you are about to draw... but I can see the point.

So maybe this is a better alternative:
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Pick one and add it to your hand. Then discard a card unless your mark is  .

Would that be better?
I.e. if you dont have time mark you are basically swapping out a card you dont need for one you want. If you do have time mark, then the trade off is essentially a forced duo.

[Naesala]

I actually dont want more mark affiliation cards myself. Id just say "and then discard a card."

[OdinVanguard]

That could work too i suppose.
Maybe I should start a poll...
Anyone have any other suggestions for possible balancing / theme linking before I put it up?

[moomoose]

im not sure how you can detach 'seeing into the future' from time, considering, you know, the future is a relative perception of time.

a while back kael came up with a similar mechanic, ill see if i can find it. edit- ah here http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11446.msg150817#msg150817
similar in the sense that you get to select, but this one is basically "improved precognition" rather than kael's cards out of thin air.

[Naesala]

im not sure how you can detach 'seeing into the future' from time, considering, you know, the future is a relative perception of time.

a while back kael came up with a similar mechanic, ill see if i can find it. edit- ah here http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11446.msg150817#msg150817
similar in the sense that you get to select, but this one is basically "improved precognition" rather than cards out of thin air.

You cant have living creatures without water, yet not every living monster requires water quanta. Not detatching it from time, just saying time isnt the main factor.

[moomoose]

youre stretching it, im not.
prophecy: "A prediction of what will happen in the future."
future: "The time or a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come."

life: "The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional"

you can have living creatures with H2O, you cant have a prophecy without time.

[OldTrees]

Time traveling foresight is Time related.
Non time traveling estimated prediction is not as Time related.

[moomoose]

i couldnt disagree more.  you cannot see the future if there is no time involved because the future is a direction of time.  the future is time, precognition is seeing the future, the concept already exists in the game and it is firmly in time, both as a spell and as the nymph's ability.

[OldTrees]

i couldnt disagree more.  you cannot see the future if there is no time involved because the future is a direction of time.  the future is time, precognition is seeing the future, the concept already exists in the game and it is firmly in time, both as a spell and as the nymph's ability.

I was agreeing with you.
To see the future costs  .
To guess at the future does not need to cost  .
Most definitions of Prophesy fall in the first camp.

[moomoose]

ah, thought you were placing it in the latter.

[Hyroen]

I think this card would fit perfectly in Light with the condition that both versions be called Revelation. With the assumption of the deck-hand-mind theory, Precognition functions because it is a future sight into your abilities, into your potential, while this card would work as a realization of what you can currently do, seeing the Light if you will...

As for the mechanics of the card, I think that 8 might be too much of a benefit for the user, especially combined with a decrease in cost. If anything you could have maybe 6 cards shown for the cost of 2 , seeing as it is a bit of a disadvantage to show a part of your deck to the opponent, or you could either simply not drop cost and have it at 8 or drop cost to 2 but not change the amount of cards revealed (leaving it at 4).

Cool card overall though Odin. I do remember Kael's card from back in the day, but seeing as the Shards are pretty much set in stone, it's good to see the mechanic revived, and by a good card creator no less.

[OdinVanguard]

i couldnt disagree more.  you cannot see the future if there is no time involved because the future is a direction of time.  the future is time, precognition is seeing the future, the concept already exists in the game and it is firmly in time, both as a spell and as the nymph's ability.

I do see your point here, but also notice that sundial sets a precedent in terms of mechanics (hence why I am not opposed to finding some way to link time in to this card). In this case, the sundial itself has temporal properties and is being forged by the player. The light cost implies that they need to illuminate what is already there to reap the benefits.
This card fits a similar concept, however in this case, the revelation theme is implying that the source of knowledge of the future isn't the Player themselves or something that the player creates. Rather they are forming a connection to a divine / supernatural force or entity that does have some form of temporal abilities and is revealing the future to them as and the players mind is the light that permits it to be seen. Hence, the player themselves need not expend any temporal energy because it has already been done by something external. All that is needed is to illuminate in their mind what is being shown to them.

This also wouldn't be the only example of a mechanic being used in an element other than its primary thematic home. For instance, scorpions use the poison mechanic which is fairly firmly rooted to the death element yet neither dune nor forest scorpion make any explicit connection to it. Moreover, the neurotoxin is one of the strongest poisons in the game yet the only card that makes use of it is not even in the death element itself, poison's core element.