Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: nerd1 on October 13, 2011, 03:52:09 pm

Title: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 13, 2011, 03:52:09 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd230942/elements_card_Phoenix_Ember_Ve.png)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd230943/elements_card_Phoenix_Flame_ve.png)
NAME:
Phoenix Ember
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
5 :fire
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Whenever one of your creatures dies, it has a 30% chance to generate an Ash. Percentage stacks by addition.
NAME:
Phoenix Flame
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
5 :fire
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Whenever one of your creatures dies, it has a 50% chance to generate an Ash. Percentage stacks by addition.
ART:
nerd1
IDEA:
nerd1
NOTES:
If an Upgraded creature dies, then it turns into an upgraded ash, if an unupgraded creature dies,it turns into an unupgraded ash. If Schrodinger's cat dies, and the effect goes through, you get a Schrodinger's cat and an Ssh. If the monster dies due to skull sheild, and the effect goes through, you get an ash and a skeleton.
If you have multiple Phoenix Embers/Flames on field then the percent chance of generating an ash gets higher and higher, for example, if you had two Phoenix Embers on the field, then the percent chance of generating an ash each time a monster died would be 60%. If the percent chance to generate something is higher than 100%, for example, if you have three phoenix flames on the field, then it would generate an ash for each 100% (in this case, as the chance would be 150%, It would generate one ash) and it would have the "leftover" chance to generate another ash (so it would generate one ash no matter what due to the 100%, plus it would have a 50% chance of generating another ash.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: OldTrees on October 13, 2011, 04:12:40 pm
Interesting.

Replacement deaths like Skull Shield and Alfatoxin would still prevent Ash correct?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: furballdn on October 13, 2011, 04:27:38 pm
For some reason in my mind, I feel this would be better as a spell. It could be "replace target creature's skill with ash". That way, it can also be used as a small lobotmizer.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 13, 2011, 04:55:35 pm
Interesting.

Replacement deaths like Skull Shield and Alfatoxin would still prevent Ash correct?
hmmm... aflatoxin would count as a normal death, and you would get a free, unblemished ash, but for skull shield, i tho\ink I'll go with you get a skeleton and and ash.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: OldTrees on October 13, 2011, 05:31:36 pm
Interesting.

Replacement deaths like Skull Shield and Alfatoxin would still prevent Ash correct?
hmmm... aflatoxin would count as a normal death, and you would get a free, unblemished ash, but for skull shield, i tho\ink I'll go with you get a skeleton and and ash.
I would recommend following Phoenix's lead and have replacement deaths prevent ash.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: Pineapple on October 13, 2011, 05:39:08 pm
"creatures die"
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: moomoose on October 13, 2011, 05:53:53 pm
"If an Upgraded creature dies, then it turns into an upgraded ash, if an unupgraded creature dies,it turns into an unupgraded ash."

ironically, isnt upgraded ash worse than unupgraded ash?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: Pineapple on October 13, 2011, 06:04:44 pm
"If an Upgraded creature dies, then it turns into an upgraded ash, if an unupgraded creature dies,it turns into an unupgraded ash."

ironically, isnt upgraded ash worse than unupgraded ash?
It's a balancing factor, makes you want to use weaker unupgraded cards over their upgraded counter-parts >:D
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 13, 2011, 09:39:55 pm
"If an Upgraded creature dies, then it turns into an upgraded ash, if an unupgraded creature dies,it turns into an unupgraded ash."

ironically, isnt upgraded ash worse than unupgraded ash?
It's a balancing factor, makes you want to use weaker unupgraded cards over their upgraded counter-parts >:D
didn't think of that, but whatever works works, also, I had an idea of how to change the text to make it more easily understood, but it might take A while before I have the new pictures, so here it is:
change from
Whenever one of your creatures dies, it has a 30%(50%) chance of becoming an Ash.to
Whenever one of your creatures dies, it has a 30%(50%) chance to generate an ash. Percent is stackable.If you're wondering about the last line, by percent is stackable I meant that if you have one out, the chances of each monster generating an ash is 30%(50%), if you have two out the chance is 60%(100%) etc. If the percent is more than one hundred, example:
four Phoenix ember out. percent chance: 120%
each creature death generates one ash and has a 20% chance to generate another ash. thoughts?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: OldTrees on October 13, 2011, 10:24:23 pm
Please have the extra Embers|Flames stack normally for percentages (50%, 75%, 87.5% ...) or trigger separately. Percentages are not supposed to stack via addition.

Why did you change it to generating an Ash instead of becoming an Ash? Phoenix becomes and Ash it does not Generate an Ash.
Phoenix: "Phoenix turns into Ash when killed"
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 14, 2011, 01:15:21 am
Please have the extra Embers|Flames stack normally for percentages (50%, 75%, 87.5% ...) or trigger separately. Percentages are not supposed to stack via addition.

Why did you change it to generating an Ash instead of becoming an Ash? Phoenix becomes and Ash it does not Generate an Ash.
Phoenix: "Phoenix turns into Ash when killed"
I decided to stack by addition because I wanted to add something unique to the card. By saying it generated an ash, I wanted to clarify that each time a creature dies, an ash has a chance to appear, so each time Schrodinger's  cat would die, you would get another ash, and if a creature ran into an undead sheild, then you would get a skeleton and an ash.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: Rutarete on October 14, 2011, 01:50:53 am
Planet of the Phoenixes
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: OldTrees on October 14, 2011, 05:07:59 am
Please have the extra Embers|Flames stack normally for percentages (50%, 75%, 87.5% ...) or trigger separately. Percentages are not supposed to stack via addition.

Why did you change it to generating an Ash instead of becoming an Ash? Phoenix becomes and Ash it does not Generate an Ash.
Phoenix: "Phoenix turns into Ash when killed"
I decided to stack by addition because I wanted to add something unique to the card. By saying it generated an ash, I wanted to clarify that each time a creature dies, an ash has a chance to appear, so each time Schrodinger's  cat would die, you would get another ash, and if a creature ran into an undead sheild, then you would get a skeleton and an ash.
If they trigger separately then 2 of the upped would create (2 Ashes 25%, 1 Ash 50% and 0 Ashes 25% of the time) per death. Same average effect, normal mathematical operations and rules, more intuitive.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 14, 2011, 12:59:17 pm
not quite. having two upped on the field at the same time with the current wording would give you an ash no matter what each turn. This cuts down on uncertainty, and would make it easier to plan ahead.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: OldTrees on October 14, 2011, 04:25:18 pm
not quite. having two upped on the field at the same time with the current wording would give you an ash no matter what each turn. This cuts down on uncertainty, and would make it easier to plan ahead.
I was describing an alternative that would follow normal mathematical operations. However, you as author have final say.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: Kuroaitou on October 21, 2011, 11:35:29 am
CURATOR COMMENT
-Please fix the ELEMENT section of the table so that it reads the element of card ('Fire', not 'Other' ;) )

...it seems that there's a lot of love for the Phoenix card when it comes down to Fire permanents... >_>
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: oblivion1212 on October 22, 2011, 12:48:09 am
Please have the extra Embers|Flames stack normally for percentages (50%, 75%, 87.5% ...)
my thoughts exactly.. stacking by addition seems pretty OP.. having 2 upped gives you an ash per creature death

it'd be more fun (for the RNG god) if each copy would trigger separately..

it looks like  :death :fire 's duo will be more prevalent with these...
 :) :) :)

nice card idea nonetheless
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: darkrobe on October 22, 2011, 12:53:28 am
also  :entropy :fire duos with the shrodingers cat synergy.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: FlareGlutox on October 23, 2011, 08:15:09 pm
If they trigger separately then 2 of the upped would create (2 Ashes 25%, 1 Ash 50% and 0 Ashes 25% of the time) per death. Same average effect, normal mathematical operations and rules, more intuitive.
This, I think, is a pretty good idea to balance it. Average would also be 100% of generating an ash, but it would always be a gamble.

I would also suggest putting in your Notes-section, that a phoenix would generate one normal ash and some additional ashes via Phoenix Ember upon death; just to prevent confusion about this.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 25, 2011, 12:14:46 am
also  :entropy :fire duos with the shrodingers cat synergy.
this was actually my original intention Cat needs some love. I made it make the ashes for sure so cat could absolutely own, but I may decide to lower the percentages of getting the ashes, maybe 20% for unnuped and 40% for upped, to balance the card. What do you think?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: xsindomanx on October 25, 2011, 02:20:12 am
Don't cats already have many uses? (Though often used in the same deck)
Even with the lowered percentages (20% | 40%), stack-able is going to be a problem. Not that amazing at math, but with 3 or 4, you have a very good chance of getting an ash. Any decks with a good number of this card would be very hard to defeat, even if they are delayed by the fact that they must wait 1 turn to turn the ash into a phoenix. There aren't any mass cc cards that deal 5 damage to each creature.

EDIT: The poll has a repeat.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: rowcla on October 25, 2011, 09:39:31 am
hmm, Phoenix turns into ash when it dies, but it still dies (death effects are still triggered) so this will allow you to make 2 ash when one pheonix dies

is this intended?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: rickerd on October 25, 2011, 12:48:59 pm
Does the ash turn into a phoenix or in the creature which died?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: xsindomanx on October 25, 2011, 03:05:59 pm
I would assume that an ash turns into a phoenix (or you need a new card instead of the 'ash')

I read the discussion and I'm not totally sure which one it is of the two:
Both ideas are decent and reasonable, but which one?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on October 25, 2011, 10:01:14 pm
I would assume that an ash turns into a phoenix (or you need a new card instead of the 'ash')

I read the discussion and I'm not totally sure which one it is of the two:
  • An unupgraded phoenix flame has 30% chance to generate an unupgraded ash when a creature is killed. An upgraded phoenix flame has 50% chance to generate an upgraded ash when a creature is killed OR
  • When an unupgraded creature is killed phoenix flame (unupped or upped) has a certain chance (30% or 50%) to generate an unupgraded ash. When an upgraded creature is killed, phoenix flame has a certain chance to generate an upgraded ash./li]
hmmm....I need to edit the notes, but I am going to say that if it was an unupgraded creature, you get an unupraded ash, and if it was an upped creature, you get an upped ash.
Both ideas are decent and reasonable, but which one?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: GG on November 01, 2011, 09:48:27 pm
Should mention whether the ashes are upped or not.

To balance it properly, the upgraded one needs a lot higher probability or a lower cost... Unupped phoenix deals almost twice as much damage as the upped, so the probability should be at least like 60% imo.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on November 02, 2011, 09:45:32 pm
Should mention whether the ashes are upped or not.

To balance it properly, the upgraded one needs a lot higher probability or a lower cost... Unupped phoenix deals almost twice as much damage as the upped, so the probability should be at least like 60% imo.
actually, think of it as a balancing factor, if you have upped ones on the feild, then you have a high chance of getting a phoenix, or even multiple phoenixes, but each one wont deal as much damage, although it would be easier to fractal the upped phoenixes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: rowcla on November 06, 2011, 03:51:06 am
Again, wouldnt a pheonix dieing allow you to create 2 ashes with this? this seems like an OP combo with other stuff

Any got an arguement against me this time?
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: nerd1 on November 11, 2011, 01:08:57 am
Again, wouldnt a pheonix dieing allow you to create 2 ashes with this? this seems like an OP combo with other stuff

Any got an arguement against me this time?
theoretically, yes, but that's the point of the card; to create ashes, and unless you have multiples of the card, it may not make the ash, so other than lowering the % chance to get something, I think it's fairly balanced.
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: rowcla on November 11, 2011, 09:33:25 am
so in other words, otuygh+two of these gives me two ash every turn, seems a bit unfair, especially with various more combos...
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: oblivion1212 on November 11, 2011, 09:40:56 am
so in other words, otuygh+two of these gives me two ash every turn, seems a bit unfair, especially with various more combos...
moreso, a couple of these + thunderstorms/RoFs vs certain swarm enemies (FGs :O) = fractal'ed phoenix \m/

is the stackability decided? effect-stacked by adding seems really scary o.o
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: rowcla on November 11, 2011, 09:50:35 am
so in other words, otuygh+two of these gives me two ash every turn, seems a bit unfair, especially with various more combos...
moreso, a couple of these + thunderstorms/RoFs vs certain swarm enemies (FGs :O) = fractal'ed phoenix \m/

is the stackability decided? effect-stacked by adding seems really scary o.o
ability only triggers when your creature die, not your opponents
Title: Re: Phoenix Ember | Phoenix Flame
Post by: oblivion1212 on November 11, 2011, 11:29:53 am
so in other words, otuygh+two of these gives me two ash every turn, seems a bit unfair, especially with various more combos...
moreso, a couple of these + thunderstorms/RoFs vs certain swarm enemies (FGs :O) = fractal'ed phoenix \m/

is the stackability decided? effect-stacked by adding seems really scary o.o
ability only triggers when your creature die, not your opponents
ohhh.. didn't notice that..
 :-\ :-\ :-\
thanks  :))

blarg: