Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: moomoose on December 16, 2011, 05:50:45 pm

Title: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: moomoose on December 16, 2011, 05:50:45 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Ggnl4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JFGH4.png)
NAME:
Nemotoad
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
2 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2 | 3
TEXT:
:time : Evolve
Turn the nemotoad into a sting ray.
NAME:
Elite Nemotoad
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
2 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2 | 3
TEXT:
:time : Evolve
Turn the nemotoad into an elite sting ray.
ART:
etg
IDEA:
moomoose
NOTES:
a slant on the grabloids, does not enter burrowed, so -1 cost.

props to anyone who thought 'doug!?' when they saw the creatures name.
SERIES:
(http://i.imgur.com/UIULm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/nd4fq.png)
NAME:
Sting Ray
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
8 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
7 | 3
TEXT:
:time : Future Shock
Stun the target card for 1 turn
NAME:
Elite Sting Ray
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
8 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
9 | 3
TEXT:
:time : Future Shock
Stun the target card for 1 turn
ART:
etg
IDEA:
moomoose
NOTES:
a slant on the shrieker, cannot burrow, duo ability, lower attack.  future shock can target non-stacking permanents (it does say 'card' not 'cards') or creatures, and the effect is cumulative (it can add on to an existing delay, and multiple sting rays can produce several delays on the same target if desired)

*may restrict it to permanents, as there seem to be more than enough :time cc options
SERIES:
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Fireleaf on December 16, 2011, 09:12:03 pm
Interesting- but I think it might be a bit OP- just like shrieker. The fact that future shock costs  :time doesn't make it weaker because you already need  :time to evolve it. To me making the ability costing 2  :time might help to prevent use solely off a mark.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: moomoose on December 16, 2011, 09:37:49 pm
its not the duo ability itself alone that makes it weaker, there are many things.  the atk is lower, the hp in the upgraded is lower, when generated from a nemotoad- the nemotoad is not burrowed and is subject to cc even before the sting ray comes out. 

im not too concerned with it being able to be fueled by a :time mark, because if a :time mark is your only source of :time quanta, you will be severely limited in how many applications of future shock you use per turn, as well as likely having to decide between evolving a nemotoad or using future shock on some turns.  future shock is generally a rather weak soft control ability, it only lasts one turn, requiring constant reapplication, making its power/cost ratio way low.

also, its worth mentioning that the lack of burrow means this card will always remain exposed to cc and not be able to burrow and reduce the effectiveness of antimatter, both of which i found rather useful in my time using shrieker decks.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Retribution on December 17, 2011, 12:07:56 am
I really don't think it's that powerful. Compare it to arctic squid.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Naesala on December 17, 2011, 12:24:32 am
Nice, time/water is one of the few duos water is lacking (and being the element thats supposed to go with everything, this should happen) I like the idea of combining this with procrastination to put your opponent in a major lockdown, trio and add silence and your opponent is in full denial.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Rutarete on December 17, 2011, 02:19:05 am
I like how you edited the art! I don't think it's OP or UP - as Moomoose stated, the lack of Burrow makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: furballdn on December 17, 2011, 03:25:20 am
Lack of burrow makes it fractallable, but it looks very nice.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Djhopper :) on December 17, 2011, 11:13:54 am
Quote from: furballdn on December 17, 2011, 03:25:20 am
Lack of burrow makes it fractallable, but it looks very nice.
I think this is OP because of fractal. You don't need much quanta to fractal this, so it would become a rainbow finisher, and probably would run pretty well in a rushier deck too.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Xenocidius on December 17, 2011, 11:19:46 am
The fact is that Graboid's being burrowed is largely to prevent it from being Fractalled and consequently broken (I think). Still, it's an interesting card. Whether the Fractal aspect would cause it to be broken or not, I'm unsure.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: mega plini on December 17, 2011, 11:27:09 am
just give it the passive ability "can not be fractalt"
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: moomoose on December 17, 2011, 04:21:36 pm
even with fractal, it may be a tricky trio to pull off, needing 8 :aether 10 :water and 4 :time to get just 4 additional ones out, and then more :time if you want to use the abilities at all.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: Xenocidius on February 22, 2012, 06:43:17 am
CURATOR COMMENT
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad || Sting Ray | Elite Sting Ray
Post by: SnoWeb on February 22, 2012, 09:54:18 am
Good idea. I also think evolve a nice ability. The :time/ :water is also missing so it makes sense. I am not quite sure however about the future shock ability: a] it is a CC ability on a midrange attacker (not yet in the game - maybe for a reason), b] water has already a creature able to stall, c] the warder ability is similar but it also paralyse it for one turn. These are not strong arguments and a new CC for time would not be bad - so maybe ...
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 03:50:13 pm
true, but sting rays only come from nemotoads, so there is a much longer delay between when the nemotoad comes into play (and isnt burrowed), turns into a sting ray the next turn, then the turn after that it can use its stun.  i think that chain of waiting is a sufficient balancing mechanism relative to the guard ability.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: Pineapple on February 22, 2012, 04:15:01 pm
Hmm...IDK if it's balanced even without Fractal.

Even if we assume that...

3+1(duo) = 5 for 8 damage per turn (Graboid)

...is balanced, does that mean that...

2+1(duo) = 4 for 7 damage per turn (Nemotoad)

...is balanced? Compare its cost/damage to Lycanthrope.

On the other hand, I'm sure these aspects can be balanced accordingly, so it's not a real flaw in card design. Plus, I obviously didn't take HP into account.

Meh.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 04:33:10 pm
a more obvious damage/cost association would be with grabloid than lycanthrope
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: Chapuz on February 22, 2012, 04:38:23 pm
I like the string ray because of the permanent delay ability. It would be awsome -and more dangerous- if the target permanent is absolutely shut down for that turn. I mean: shield doesn't make effect, eclipse is reverted, feral bond doesn't heal, weapon doesn't attack, etc.

Just with that ability (and not targeting creatures) would be great and powerful.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: Pineapple on February 22, 2012, 05:02:57 pm
Quote from: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 04:33:10 pm
a more obvious damage/cost association would be with grabloid than lycanthrope
I implied in the very post you replied to that the reason Nemotoad may be OP is because it's a better attacker than Graboid.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 05:18:26 pm
my mistake, am at work and can only quickly glance through messages
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 10:43:14 pm
i remember now, the reduced cost was due to not coming out burrowed, leaving it vulnerable to cc, even lobo.  a fractal would be a trio, which is intrinsically restrictive and less of a concern than if it were to have an :aether ability and it be a duo, for example.
Title: Re: Nemotoad | Elite Nemotoad
Post by: Pineapple on February 23, 2012, 02:41:01 pm
Quote from: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 10:43:14 pm
i remember now, the reduced cost was due to not coming out burrowed, leaving it vulnerable to cc, even lobo.  a fractal would be a trio, which is intrinsically restrictive and less of a concern than if it were to have an :aether ability and it be a duo, for example.
I see..I guess that makes sense.
blarg: