Jumping Fish | Flying Fish

[rohlfo]

Another card inspired by stuff in real life. It's more about the mechanic then the creature, but I think the creature in question fits the mechanic.

Finding legit art is the biggest ball-ache I find with creating cards.....flying fish looks ok, but if someone can find me a legal 'jumping fish' that would be cool....basically a leaping/jumping salmon is what I had in mind.

NAME: Jumping Fish ELEMENT: Water COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 2|N TEXT: Swarm: n = number of fish you control at the end of the turn. Bypasses 1 point of shield's damage reduction.	NAME: Flying Fish ELEMENT: Water COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 3|N TEXT: Swarm: n = number of fish you control at the end of the turn. Bypasses 2 point of shield's damage reduction.

ART: for jumping fish: http://www.freedigitalphotos.net/images/Other_Metaphors_and__g307-Fish_Jumping_p19999.html  the matching portfolio: http://www.freedigitalphotos.net/images/view_photog.php?photogid=851 for flying fish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pink-wing_flying_fish.jpg IDEA: rohlfo NOTES: Flying Fish does not have airborne skill. (it jumps out of water, doesn't actually fly....) does not bypass gravity pull. Cannot Bypass Bone Wall. Can Bypass Dissipation Shield. For other shields it should be obvious, I made a table in this thread should people need to check. SERIES:

[wizelsnarf]

I like the idea.

In the wild they are always in groups, so maybe you could give them the swarm passive ability?


How would this work with different kinds of shields ? Fog Shield, Dusk Mantle, Gravity Shield... They would just be normal with these shields basically? What happens when an enemy has a gravity pulled creature?



Alternate wording:

"Bypasses 1 point of shields' damage reduction"

"Bypasses 2 points of shields' damage reduction"

[rohlfo]

I like the idea.

In the wild they are always in groups, so maybe you could give them the swarm passive ability?


How would this work with different kinds of shields ? Fog Shield, Dusk Mantle, Gravity Shield... They would just be normal with these shields basically? What happens when an enemy has a gravity pulled creature?



Alternate wording:

"Bypasses 1 point of shields' damage reduction"

"Bypasses 2 points of shields' damage reduction"

Did think of swarm and def an option, because like you said, they often in groups. Just left it as that for now until I got the mechanic sorted (thanks for suggestion, will use it and change when I next have enough time).

With other shields it works as you'd expect. With Gravity pull, I guess it should be able to 'jump'(bypass) 1 attack, since it's like 1 attack is a momentum attack, and momentum bypasses gravity pull.
Think the main 'win' of this creature is against Fireshield, Thorn Carapace and Ice Shield. Other 'normal' shields as well a bit.

[wizelsnarf]

Hmm I definitely didn't think it bypassed fireshield.

You need to reword if that is the case because fireshield doesn't not prevent any damage. If I have fireshield up I take all the damage already. Same goes for thorn carapace.


I think you need to reword your idea if you want it to bypass fireshield.

[rohlfo]

Hmm I definitely didn't think it bypassed fireshield.

You need to reword if that is the case because fireshield doesn't not prevent any damage. If I have fireshield up I take all the damage already. Same goes for thorn carapace.


I think you need to reword your idea if you want it to bypass fireshield.

ah, yeah, see what you mean. Had a brain fart there.....isn't the same thing as what I said. Will have to think about this.

[rohlfo]

ok, updated, added swarm effect and changed wording to make sense. feedback welcome 

[Rutarete]

This idea just makes me laugh (that's a good thing  )
The only suggestion i have is to raise the cost to 3 | 2 or 4 | 2

[wizelsnarf]

This idea just makes me laugh (that's a good thing  )
The only suggestion i have is to raise the cost to 3 | 2 or 4 | 2

4 2 doesn't make too much sense to me as the upped is a lot better.

3|2 could be alright though looking at it 3|3 might be better. The upped is significantly better.

If Old Trees comes by, I think he would say something like

unupped: +2 (attack) +1 (bypasses 1 shield) ...... and possibly +1 swarm = 3 or possibly 4
Upped: +3 (attack) +2 (bypass 2 shield) -1 (upped) .... and possibly +1 swarm = 4 or possibly 5

Looking at scarab though, its 2 for 3 attack AND devour AND swarm.

So I think 3 for both would be fair?

[Rutarete]

actually, now that i look at it again, especially the upgraded, i think it should be 3|3 or even 3|4
one reason is that many cards that cost so little seem OP to me

[Newbiecake]

I think the cost is fine as it is. Think of it this way: Scarabs + Devour+ Swarm + can be generated by Pharaohs is only 2  , while Jumping Fish + Swarm + Bypass (a mini momentum) but cannot be generated. You can only pack 6 of these in a deck and no more, unless you use various methods of production. That lack of ability to be generated from another creature is compensated by the cost of 2  , which IMO isn't OP at all.

[Rutarete]

I think the cost is fine as it is. 2  . Think of it this way: Scarabs + Devour+ Swarm + can be generated by Pharaohs, while Jumping Fish + Swarm + Bypass (a mini momentum) but cannot be generated. You can only pack 6 of these in a deck and no more, unless you use various methods of production. That lack of ability to be generated from another creature is compensated by the cost of 2  , which IMO isn't OP at all.

Don't forget that it's jumping over almost every shield in the game! i think that by itself calls for a cost-raise

[rohlfo]

This idea just makes me laugh (that's a good thing  )

thanks  when I see how many cards make it into the game I don't think every idea should be deadly serious. Having said that, the name etc may be a bit funny, but I do try to think of sensible mechanics, since those are the bits I see Zanz taking for new ideas (and not the name, art etc).

Anyway, to the costing part....

In general, I agree with it needing to cost more, if looked at using the methods and tables provided by OldTreees. I guess I found it really hard to make it cost more than Scarab though since I don't think this creature is more powerful than Scarab...:s

Arguably it could be attack 2 + swarm 1 + bypass 1 = 4...although bypass is perhaps not strong enough to be worth 1 I think.

Looking at shields in game where it would even help (not that 1 or 2 extra damage is even that much remember....)

Jumping Fish with shields:
Dissipitation Shield:N (absorbs 3 damage, bypass 1, still blocks 2 damage...?)
Dissipitation Field: N

Skull Shield:Y
Skull Buckler:Y
Bone Wall: Y/N (I'm unsure if fish could jump this - opinion welcome!)
Bone Wall: Y/N

Gravity Shield:N
Gravity Shield:N

Titanium Shield: Y (only 1 attack though)
Diamond Shield: N

Thorn Carapace:N
Spine Carapace:Y
Emerald Shield:Y
Jade Shield:Y (only 1 attack though)

Fire Shield:N
Fire Buckler:N

Ice Shield: Y
Permafrost Shield:Y (only 1 attack though)

Fog Shield: N
Fog Shield: N
Wings: N
Wings:N

Procrastination: N
Turtle Shield: N

Dusk Mantle: N
Improved Dusk: N

Dimensional Shield: N
Phase Shield: N

verdict: bonus against 8(maybe 10) out of 28 shields ~30% of shields (of which 3 also reduce attack...)

Flying Fish with shields:
Dissipitation Shield:Y (only 1 attack though) (I'm unsure if fish could jump this - opinion welcome!)
Dissipitation Field: Y (only 1 attack though)

Skull Shield:Y
Skull Buckler:Y
Bone Wall: Y/N (I'm unsure if fish could jump this - opinion welcome!)
Bone Wall: Y/N

Gravity Shield:N
Gravity Shield:N

Titanium Shield: Y (only 2 attack though)
Diamond Shield: Y (only 1 attack though)

Thorn Carapace:N
Spine Carapace:Y
Emerald Shield:Y
Jade Shield:Y

Fire Shield:N
Fire Buckler:N

Ice Shield: Y
Permafrost Shield:Y

Fog Shield: N
Fog Shield: N
Wings: N
Wings:N

Procrastination: N
Turtle Shield: N

Dusk Mantle: N
Improved Dusk: N

Dimensional Shield: N
Phase Shield: N

verdict: bonus against 11 (maybe 13) of 28 shields ~40% of shields (of which 4 also reduce attack....)

One thing I'd add is to say look at what type of shields the (small) bonus is good for, not nec the 'best' or preferred shields in the game...

Thanks for feedback from everyone 

In conclusion, perhaps 2 |3 or max 3 |3 is something I could live with...although I'd love to keep the cost the same as Scarab :s