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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: Drake_XIV on October 15, 2012, 09:39:57 pm

Title: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 15, 2012, 09:39:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/P5xTr.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/oVAxN.png)
NAME:
Hoatzin
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
5 :air
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 4
TEXT:
If Hoatzin were to be sent to your deck, Hoatzin turns into a random dragon instead.
NAME:
Hoatzin
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
5 :air
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 4
TEXT:
If Hoatzin were to be sent to your deck, Hoatzin turns into a random dragon instead.

ART:
Richard McManus (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/hoatzin-in-rainforest-royalty-free-image/142301434)
IDEA:
Drake_XIV
NOTES:
So, it technically still stays on field.
SERIES:

Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Rutarete on October 15, 2012, 10:01:22 pm
:air :time isn't that common... cool strategy, forced combo. I'm imagining a deck with these, fractal, and SoR Eternities and a quint or two.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 15, 2012, 10:54:43 pm
Oh, also, unupped and upped will generate unupped and upped dragons respectively.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: artimies7 on October 16, 2012, 12:17:40 am
Curious: Where'd the name come from?
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: ddevans96 on October 16, 2012, 12:25:52 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoatzin
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 12:29:59 am
How many cards return a card back to a deck? Only RT I think. This also doesn't allow :time :air duos since a random dragon would mean :rainbow would be needed to use this to the full extent.

I can only think of really one use for this, so it is a forced combo.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 01:49:49 am
It is as forced as Undead.  The only other redeeming thing is that it would make decent Fractal material...
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 01:56:49 am
Quote from: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 01:49:49 am
It is as forced as Undead.  The only other redeeming thing is that it would make decent Fractal material...
Skeleton was not built purely for undead. Undead was added later to buff skeleton a little bit. Skeleton already served a role before undead was added as a minor buff.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 05:59:22 am
Buffed stats and updated with art.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: summerz88 on October 16, 2012, 06:02:48 am
i can dig it, but i think HP might be a tad high on unupped
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Cheesy111 on October 16, 2012, 06:07:31 am
Balancing with this should be done in comparison to Mummy, not Skeleton.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 06:11:02 am
And regardless, Hoatzin is now not so useless compared to Wyrm on its own.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 06:12:54 am
5 :air for 5|5 seems balanced.

The ability actually seems to make it weaker. "If I get hit by RT, not only will I be removed and draw lock my owner one turn, there is only a 1/12th chance I'll turn into an :air dragon! Otherwise I'll be useless unless my owner makes a super specialized airbow with RT and me!"
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Cheesy111 on October 16, 2012, 06:14:08 am
Quote from: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 06:12:54 am
5 :air for 5|5 seems balanced.

The ability actually seems to make it weaker. "If I get hit by RT, not only will I be removed and draw lock my owner one turn, there is only a 1/12th chance I'll turn into an :air dragon! Otherwise I'll be useless unless my owner makes a super specialized airbow with RT and me!"
You misunderstand.  If it is RT'd it does not go back into the deck.  Instead, it turns into a random dragon.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 16, 2012, 06:15:19 am
Quote from: Cheesy111 on October 16, 2012, 06:07:31 am
Balancing with this should be done in comparison to Mummy, not Skeleton.
Worth noting that mummy is actually above the ATK/Cost efficieny curve when compared to skeleton (1 for 1 < 4  for 5). This card breaks even at 1 for 1 cost/ATK if an upgrade is counted as a free -1 cost.

So this is essentially Mummy and Abomination combined and elementshifted (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Colorshifted#Timeshifted_in_Planar_Chaos).  The resulting theme is somewhat bland and the resulting creature seems to tread on Wyrm's niche a bit.

I can't really say much about this card - it's very generic in both flavor and effect (Oh, so it's Mummy, except for Dragons.), and that heavily detracts from the card's appeal for me. Is there any way to fix that issue a bit?
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 06:18:43 am
Quote from: Zblader on October 16, 2012, 06:15:19 am
I can't really say much about this card - it's very generic in both flavor and effect (Oh, so it's Mummy, except for Dragons.), and that heavily detracts from the card's appeal for me. Is there any way to fix that issue a bit?

Not all ideas can be flashy and innovative.  Some of them just need to reword preexisting ones so we can expand the card pool so that any other potential flashy ones aren't situational.

That being said, there isn't really much more you can add to this card.  It does tread on Wyrm slightly, but considering that Wyrm is cheaper and can be buffed more effectively there shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 06:19:18 am
Quote from: Cheesy111 on October 16, 2012, 06:14:08 am
Quote from: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 06:12:54 am
5 :air for 5|5 seems balanced.

The ability actually seems to make it weaker. "If I get hit by RT, not only will I be removed and draw lock my owner one turn, there is only a 1/12th chance I'll turn into an :air dragon! Otherwise I'll be useless unless my owner makes a super specialized airbow with RT and me!"
You misunderstand.  If it is RT'd it does not go back into the deck.  Instead, it turns into a random dragon.

Exactly.  Is that why furbs is confused?
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: summerz88 on October 16, 2012, 06:34:24 am
comparing 5  :air for 5|5 to abom isnt fair because it has an ability,
RTing mummy deals 1 less damage, and 1 more the turn after (for spending 2 :time)
For just RTing this card u get a min 7/8 damage creature which is then 7 quanta for 7-12 damage
and because of the really nice combo with sky blitz i think it should be a little bit easier to kill, thats all im saying
Title: Re: Hoatzin | Hoatzin
Post by: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 11:06:46 pm
Quote from: Drake_XIV on October 16, 2012, 06:19:18 am
Quote from: Cheesy111 on October 16, 2012, 06:14:08 am
Quote from: furballdn on October 16, 2012, 06:12:54 am
5 :air for 5|5 seems balanced.

The ability actually seems to make it weaker. "If I get hit by RT, not only will I be removed and draw lock my owner one turn, there is only a 1/12th chance I'll turn into an :air dragon! Otherwise I'll be useless unless my owner makes a super specialized airbow with RT and me!"
You misunderstand.  If it is RT'd it does not go back into the deck.  Instead, it turns into a random dragon.

Exactly.  Is that why furbs is confused?
Yes. I seem to have misunderstood it as "turns into a random dragon AND gets sent back into deck).

If this is the case, I suspect Hoatzin (ability) is worth more than Mummy (ability), and Mummy's passive was worth +0.

I assume the ability is passive. I'd put the ability cost of turning into a dragon (Anti-RT, allows for faster rushing) as +1 to +2 :underworld.
blarg: