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Offline russianspy1234Topic starter

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Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060860#msg1060860
« on: April 17, 2013, 06:28:58 pm »
NAME:
Gusting Butterfly
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
4 :air
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2 | 2
TEXT:
:air :air :air :Return target enemy permanent to its owner's hand. May mistarget if used more than once.
NAME:
Gusting Butterfly
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
4 :air
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
3 | 2
TEXT:
:air :air  :Return target enemy permanent to its owner's hand. May mistarget if used more than once.

ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1384743
IDEA:
russianspy1234
NOTES:
20% for each use beyond the first.  Might hit your own permanent.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 10:21:34 pm by russianspy1234 »
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060863#msg1060863
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 06:31:18 pm »
Love the art you found. Very vibrant blue. Awesome.

The mechanic has been suggested before, although maybe not exactly in this manner. But, it still will have some of the same issues as previous attempts.

Namely, it can be abused with Dim. Shield and Sundial.

Even if this were single-use and fractal and mitosis weren't an issue, it still would allow the owner to extend dim shield and sundial for 6 times as long.

I think returning opponent's permanents isn't a big issue, but the possible abuse with Dim. Shield, and sundial is.

Other than that issue, I think this would make a nice addition and give :air some needed soft PC.

Not sure what to do to get around the potential abuse though...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 06:36:09 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Offline russianspy1234Topic starter

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060867#msg1060867
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 06:38:06 pm »
Not sure what to do to get around the potential abuse though...

limit it to opponent's permanents only?
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Offline Chapuz

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060870#msg1060870
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 06:42:35 pm »
Not sure what to do to get around the potential abuse though...
limit it to opponent's permanents only?
Yes, and make it 1-time use. An Eternity for permanents must have a big restriction (Eternity's one is being a weapon, so it requieres a combo to have more than one)
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Offline russianspy1234Topic starter

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060872#msg1060872
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 06:46:17 pm »
Not sure what to do to get around the potential abuse though...
limit it to opponent's permanents only?
Yes, and make it 1-time use. An Eternity for permanents must have a big restriction (Eternity's one is being a weapon, so it requieres a combo to have more than one)

one time use is too weak i think.  this isn't eternity, its back to hand (and thus cant be used if hand is full) so there isn't as much potential for abuse.
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Offline Chapuz

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060875#msg1060875
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 06:54:31 pm »
fractal and mitosis. Mitosis + this = eternity and that's pretty good imo
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Offline Zergva

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060881#msg1060881
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 07:04:57 pm »
I having worries too. This+Nightmare can be OP combo (Your opponent can't draw other cards for 4-12 turns by taking pillars back to his/her hands at your turn), while you solve his field and/or win. Against a bot, it's auto win, because it always plays the pillar back, so you can do it for 'forever'.

But it's a creative idea and  :air needs some PC :D

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060887#msg1060887
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 07:13:57 pm »
Limiting it to Opponent's permanents only would probably be a good fix.

I having worries too. This+Nightmare can be OP combo (Your opponent can't draw other cards for 4-12 turns by taking pillars back to his/her hands at your turn), while you solve his field and/or win. Against a bot, it's auto win, because it always plays the pillar back, so you can do it for 'forever'.

But it's a creative idea and  :air needs some PC :D
This may not be such a big issue since they can easily just play the pillars again on their next turn. They won't even lose quanta production from it.

You would need 8 of these in order to be sure you can lock down the opponent's hand. That means a fractal or mitosis is required...
That would take a trio, which gets tricky due to quanta stability issues.
It would also take 3 :air per pillar sent back, so you would need a LOT of :air to pull it off.
It could indeed be powerful, but I think it has enough drawbacks / details to solve that it shouldn't be too OP.
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Offline russianspy1234Topic starter

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060890#msg1060890
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2013, 07:14:48 pm »
hmmm thats true, didnt think about draw lock...

could have some sort of singularity like behavior where a butterfly flapping its wings can create a hurricane or what not...
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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060932#msg1060932
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2013, 08:35:24 pm »
yeah draw lock would be annoying. Make this a one time use when it's summoned.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060989#msg1060989
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2013, 10:06:18 pm »
How about:
" :air :air :air : Gust - Return an enemy permanent to owner. May randomly mistarget if used multiple times per turn."

So you can use 1 of these per turn safely, but the more you use the more likely it starts returning things at random.

It would be cool if the misfire chance ramped up with each use... E.g. something like 20% times the number of previous uses in the same turn.

The mistargets could end up returning your own permanents (and maybe even creatures :D ) as well as random enemy permanents.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 10:08:09 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Offline russianspy1234Topic starter

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Re: Gusting Butterfly | Gusting Butterfly https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48568.msg1060994#msg1060994
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2013, 10:18:47 pm »
How about:
" :air :air :air : Gust - Return an enemy permanent to owner. May randomly mistarget if used multiple times per turn."

So you can use 1 of these per turn safely, but the more you use the more likely it starts returning things at random.

It would be cool if the misfire chance ramped up with each use... E.g. something like 20% times the number of previous uses in the same turn.

The mistargets could end up returning your own permanents (and maybe even creatures :D ) as well as random enemy permanents.

like it, though not the possibility of hitting your creatures.
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anything
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