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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 03:26:17 pm

Title: Greater Mongoose | Greater Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 03:26:17 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/oKqQg.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/GS8jF.png)
NAME:
Greater Mongoose
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
6 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 6
TEXT:
Mongoose: Unable to be infected.
NAME:
Greater Mongoose
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
6 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 7
TEXT:
Mongoose: Unable to be infected.
ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/332380
IDEA:
Hyroen, EmeraldTiger
NOTES:
SERIES:
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Flayne on May 19, 2011, 03:58:31 pm
IF this does not stack:
seems to weak for existing around a sole purpose.

I suggest 50% for upped. Maybe 25% for unnupped.

upped = 20 poison damage converted to 10 poison damage with this around, slightly better.

IF this Does stack, ignore the comment and its fine.


The cost depends on your answer.
I would suggest the unnupped being 4 :life and upped being 3 :life.
maybe cheaper since it has one purpose only.

Thought I would recommend this does stack, why?

If 6 of these are on the field (25%), thats 150%.

So, If this is above 100%, The poison would actually heal you.
The counters would still be there, but 50% of them actually heal you, while the rest is just negated damage.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 04:11:18 pm
I will go with the general consensus, some may think stacking will make it OP.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: OldTrees on May 19, 2011, 04:26:30 pm
@Flayne
Percentages do not stack like that.
25% means 1/4 of the time Mongoose 1 prevents the poison damage.
That means 3/4s of the time Mongoose 1 does not prevent the poison damage.
That means that each additional Mongoose (if it stacks) would reduce the 3/4s by 25% of 3/4s.
The chance of poison damage not being prevented in the presence of N Mongooses (if it stacks) is (3/4)^N.
In other words:  2 Mongooses (if it stacks) would have a (3/4)x(3/4)=9/16s chance of not preventing the poison damage.
1: 3/4 chance of poison damage
2: 9/16 chance of poison damage
3: 27/64 chance of poison damage
4: 81/256 chance of poison damage
5: 243/1024 chance of poison damage
6: 729/4096 chance of poison damage
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: artimies7 on May 19, 2011, 04:54:05 pm
Quote from: OldTrees on May 19, 2011, 04:26:30 pm
@Flayne
Percentages do not stack like that.
25% means 1/4 of the time Mongoose 1 prevents the poison damage.
That means 3/4s of the time Mongoose 1 does not prevent the poison damage.
That means that each additional Mongoose (if it stacks) would reduce the 3/4s by 25% of 3/4s.
The chance of poison damage not being prevented in the presence of N Mongooses (if it stacks) is (3/4)^N.
In other words:  2 Mongooses (if it stacks) would have a (3/4)x(3/4)=9/16s chance of not preventing the poison damage.
1: 3/4 chance of poison damage
2: 9/16 chance of poison damage
3: 27/64 chance of poison damage
4: 81/256 chance of poison damage
5: 243/1024 chance of poison damage
6: 729/4096 chance of poison damage
I was going to say stacking means (1) 25% + (2) 25% of 25% + (3) 25% of 25% of 25%, but you ninja'd me.

And besides, mine requires more calculations, which you did anyway.
If you want to know whether stacking is OP, put up a poll. I do it all the time.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 05:42:08 pm
so would they stack the way Flayne said if the % didn't affect each other?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Flayne on May 19, 2011, 05:42:37 pm
Sorry to say, but If that is the case with what ET wanted, then that's kind of useless, IMO.
729/4096 chance to prevent poison damage? extremely UP, why not just use a purify?

However, The text implies, "25% of poison damage to you is negated"
That is a direct negation.
So that would either mean that 3/4 of the poison damage that is directed at you from multiple sources, or
the incoming damage from the poison counters you have.

I don't see any "Chance" involved in the card text.
Therefore, I am either correct the way I was, or what ET wanted is what you are implying.
(or perhaps I misunderstand what you guys are saying)

ET, what is it you want to achieve with this card?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 05:51:57 pm
Would be better if poison was blocked?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: ninjamaster1991 on May 19, 2011, 06:38:21 pm
Maybe every 4th counter does nothing? so, with 4 mongeese, you'd have 0 poison damage.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Hyroen on May 19, 2011, 09:10:37 pm
I'd say make the unupgraded semi-vanilla, 1:1:1 cost:attack:HP ratio and a mid-hitter with the ability Mongoose: Unable to be infected. Add slight improvements for the upgraded and voila.

\^_^/
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 09:19:35 pm
what attack range = a mid-hitter?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on May 19, 2011, 09:34:51 pm
I think a mid-hitter with stats around ~6 | ~6 would be good for this card. Life lacks such a midhitter at the moment and lower stats might cause this card to compete with Frog and Cockatrice.

I also agree with removing the innate "While in play 25% of poison damage to you is negated.", and buff the upgraded/lower the cost instead. It keeps that "simple" feeling that I really like from the unupped.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 09:55:15 pm
what might be good also is a shield that is inspired by this.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Hyroen on May 19, 2011, 10:08:38 pm
I tried to make a poison-protecting shield in Steelheart (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12500.0.html). It was an interesting idea... I may submit it to the crucible soon.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 10:27:08 pm
may i dig that shield out of the Smithy graveyard?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Hyroen on May 19, 2011, 10:31:09 pm
I may submit it to the crucible myself soon. Feel free to direct any commentary of the card to its thread. Thank you.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: OldTrees on May 19, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
For future reference for Emerald Tiger and Flayne about percentages and stacking
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 05:42:08 pm
so would they stack the way Flayne said if the % didn't affect each other?
No. Percentages either stack by multiplying (as I showed) or they do not stack.

Quote from: Flayne on May 19, 2011, 05:42:37 pm
Sorry to say, but If that is the case with what ET wanted, then that's kind of useless, IMO.
729/4096 chance to prevent poison damage? extremely UP, why not just use a purify?
No, 729/4096 is the chance of not preventing poison damage. That means it is a 3367/4096 chance of negating poison damage.

Just as a rule of thumb Flayne, you do not understand how percentages correctly stack. (few people do) So here is a handy chart

X% of preventing (more complicated) [X% chance of missing]
1X %
2100 - ( (100-X)^2)/100 %
3100 - ( (100-X)^3)/10,000 %
4100 - ( (100-X)^4)/1,000,000 %
5100 - ( (100-X)^5)/100,000,000 %
6100 - ( (100-X)^6)/10,000,000,000 %
Y% of occurring [Y% chance of infecting]
1Y %
2(Y^2)/100 %
3(Y^3)/10,000 %
4(Y^4)/1000,000 %
5(Y^5)/100,000,000 %
6(Y^6)/10,000,000,000 %
The simpler version is better.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: Flayne on May 20, 2011, 04:56:53 am
Quote from: OldTrees on May 19, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
For future reference for Emerald Tiger and Flayne about percentages and stacking
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on May 19, 2011, 05:42:08 pm
so would they stack the way Flayne said if the % didn't affect each other?
No. Percentages either stack by multiplying (as I showed) or they do not stack.

Quote from: Flayne on May 19, 2011, 05:42:37 pm
Sorry to say, but If that is the case with what ET wanted, then that's kind of useless, IMO.
729/4096 chance to prevent poison damage? extremely UP, why not just use a purify?
No, 729/4096 is the chance of not preventing poison damage. That means it is a 3367/4096 chance of negating poison damage.

Just as a rule of thumb Flayne, you do not understand how percentages correctly stack. (few people do) So here is a handy chart

X% of preventing (more complicated) [X% chance of missing]
1X %
2100 - ( (100-X)^2)/100 %
3100 - ( (100-X)^3)/10,000 %
4100 - ( (100-X)^4)/1,000,000 %
5100 - ( (100-X)^5)/100,000,000 %
6100 - ( (100-X)^6)/10,000,000,000 %
Y% of occurring [Y% chance of infecting]
1Y %
2(Y^2)/100 %
3(Y^3)/10,000 %
4(Y^4)/1000,000 %
5(Y^5)/100,000,000 %
6(Y^6)/10,000,000,000 %
The simpler version is better.
I see, but I was only trying to predict what ET was implying, however, It seems to me that this is how percentage stack in EtG works,
thanks for that OT.
My math sucks  ^^;
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 22, 2011, 02:13:32 am
Is this crucible ready?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: storyteller on May 22, 2011, 03:09:19 am
I tyhink its too big, mongoose are small ferret like creatures. this is like a wolf or cougar, not a badger.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 28, 2011, 04:10:09 am
is this really too strong?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: OldTrees on May 28, 2011, 04:19:08 am
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on May 28, 2011, 04:10:09 am
is this really too strong?
Not too strong but yes it is too big for a ferret. Are ferrets smaller than Cockatrices? I think so.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: artimies7 on May 28, 2011, 07:50:19 pm
Quote from: OldTrees on May 28, 2011, 04:19:08 am
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on May 28, 2011, 04:10:09 am
is this really too strong?
Not too strong but yes it is too big for a ferret. Are ferrets smaller than Cockatrices? I think so.
Only just. Ferrets aren't that small, just sleek. If you poof them up, they are bigger than that.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: coinich on May 28, 2011, 08:02:41 pm
Why does upgrading get me 1 more DEF point?  Its not that helpful at this point in the game.
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 17, 2011, 12:54:39 pm
what if I add a descriptive word indicating that this is not a normal sized mongoose?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: rickerd on December 17, 2011, 03:04:21 pm
is it fully unable to get poison counters, or does it get as much counters as you want but he doesn't die by it?
Title: Re: Mongoose | Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 18, 2011, 01:18:58 am
it is fully unable to get poison counters.
Title: Re: Greater Mongoose | Greater Mongoose
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 18, 2011, 06:30:43 pm
added a descriptive term to the name to indicate that this a larger mongoose.
Title: Re: Greater Mongoose | Greater Mongoose
Post by: furballdn on December 19, 2011, 01:26:45 am
Green mongoose and purple grass? Ow my eyes.
Title: Re: Greater Mongoose | Greater Mongoose
Post by: rickerd on December 19, 2011, 03:26:35 pm
Cool!  :)
blarg: