Ghost of the Betrayer | Spectre of Betrayal

[March_Wizard]

NAME: Ghost of the Betrayer ELEMENT: Death COST: 5  TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: -1|1 TEXT: Conspiracy: If 3 or more of this card are in play, it gains +9|+2	NAME: Spectre of Betrayal ELEMENT: Death COST: 5  TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: -2|1 TEXT: Conspiracy: If 3 or more of this card are in play, it gains +10|+4

ART: Marcus Junius Brutus the Younger, 1881 Young Folks' Cyclopedia of Persons and Places IDEA: March_Wizard NOTES: My First suggested card The card description currently lacks a description of when the power up would occur (At the beginning of the next turn, at the end of the current, or when a card is played? (I am leaning towards at the beginning of the next turn, so opponent has a chance to defend themselves in the event of a an Old One attack)) EDIT: Made the cards more closely match each other. EDIT: reconstituted as the Conspirator card, similar mechanic, toned down abilities. Also, with the Conspiracy ability, the mechanics concerning TU and creature control as I imagine them to happen: If three are in your field and 1 gets destroyed, they all lose their bonus at the beginning of your next turn. If a player with 2 conspirators in the field already, plays a TU on one, the bonus isn't applied until the beginning of his next turn, which is the same thing that would happen if he played a Conspirator from his hand. If a player with 0 conspirators in the field TU's an Enemies conspirator that already has its bonus, then the bonus is kept and it deals its heightened damage, but come the beginning of the next turn, it should automatically lose its bonus. Hopefully that is clear. EDIT: Changed it from Darkness to death. I think Conspirators fit in either, and since this card would have a good synergy with Fractal, and Darkness already has a strong Synergy with Aether, this card is unnecessary in Darkness. A big hole in Death's strategy, I have always found, is that there are few priority targets in its creature roster. There are plenty of creatures and abilities that benefit from the death of a creature, but no creature are really advantageous to kill early. Most can be safely ignored, but a Conspirator needs to be dealt with earlier, before their conspiracy comes to pass. EDIT: Changed to Ghost and Spectre, better align with Death's theme and make them less human. Also, instead of 10|3 and 10|5 when the bonus is applied, I reduced it to 8|3 and 8|5. The card is still more efficient than a Dragon in terms of quanta, but is less efficient in terms of cards used. It is less efficent than a recluse or mummy in terms of Quanta, but more efficient in terms of card use. Here is a table, keep in mind that Fractal is MORE efficient in terms of card use, since all the cards you need end up in your hand. Ghost of the Betrayer Fractal + Ghost Bone Dragon Flesh Recluse Total Cost Quanta + Cards Total Attack 5 + 1 -1 10 + 2 -2 15 + 3 24 20 + 4 32 25 + 5 40 30 + 6 48 Total Cost Quanta + Cards Total Attack 5 + 1 -1 15 + 2 -1 20 + 2 -2 25 + 2 24 30 + 2 32 35 + 2 40 Total Cost Quanta + Cards Total Attack 10 + 1 10 20 + 2 20 30 + 3 30 40 + 4 40 50 + 5 50 60 + 6 60 Total Cost Quanta + Cards Total Attack 3 + 1 6 6 + 2 12 9 + 3 18 12 + 4 24 15 + 5 30 18 + 6 36 SERIES: N/A

[Nepycros]

So, when upgraded, if you play 3 TU's on this card, you win?

How about no.

at the cost of 12 (then all) quanta, then 18 Aether, you've got 4 monsters that can do 100 damage in a single turn. In the end, all the quanta actually used would be 30.

[OldTrees]

Decent first attempt. Not a good finished idea but still a good attempt.

My first criticism is that the card effect does not match the card name. The Great Old Ones were neither useless alone nor did they gain power from each other's presence. I have split my post into two portions each giving suggestions on furthering an appropriate effect for the name or vice versa.


Name:
1) Why would a Great Old One or an Ancient One (I think they are different I can't remember) have 0 attack if solo? Typically those entities were depicted as world-shattering by themselves.

2) Dragons cost around 11 quanta. Creatures of power akin to dragons should be priced at around 11 quanta. Again the Great Old Ones are more powerful than dragons so a full Great Old One should cost around 17-20 quanta.

3) Usually the Lovecraftian beings took their time before acting. Maybe the card comes into play delayed?

4) Maybe make a card or cards that revolve around the summoning/calling of one of these beings?


Effect:
5) The effect has a decent mechanic that can be improved and expanded upon.
"When N ___ are on the field each gains +X|+Y."

6) I would first tone down the effect. Maybe "When 3 or more ___ are on the field each gains +5|+5" ?

7) I would try to brainstorm what beings gain power through congregating and use that inspiration to proceed.

Good Luck! I will be watching this thread and helping out where I can.

[Spielkind]

not that much time, but i think, you have to do this like a chimera, which absorbs "cultists"... ancient ones need cultist or other beings, which help them to come back in our reality! think about that!  8)

[AnonymousRevival]

Maybe lower ancient one by 2 , and then say that if three or more before it raises its stats.

[March_Wizard]

Thank you all for the feedback

My idea behind these cards is to make something that is very damaging to everyone when first played, but has a large payoff down the line for the player that played it.

I chose The Great Old Ones for Entropy since they are chaotic themed.

I made them be destructive to each players quanta, thematically as world destroyers, and mechanically to encourage the owner to play it sooner rather than later to ensure minimal quanta loss.

I made them wait for other Great Old Ones mostly more mechanical reasons, so it's mostly useless after being played. Thematically I suppose they arent interested in helping the player unless the other Great Old Ones are summoned, though that is a flimsy reason.

So, when upgraded, if you play 3 TU's on this card, you win?

How about no.

at the cost of 12 (then all) quanta, then 18 Aether, you've got 4 monsters that can do 100 damage in a single turn. In the end, all the quanta actually used would be 30.

It is for this reason I considered making them immortal, but that would make them extremely focused on just pulling more Old One cards, and limit the counters to them to a bare handful.

I hoped the Destruction of all Quanta makes the TU deck more troublesome, because  it would drag out the number of turns needed to recover the quanta necessary to TU them. And Saving up the quanta to both play them and TU it is impossible, since as soon as it is played, all Aether Quanta are destroyed. Anonymous may have a point that 2 Ancient Ones aren't to much of a "far away payoff". I have only just recently started collecting Upgraded cards, and my low opinion of them may have made me a little careless in creating the upgraded version. I'll change that one now to be more inline with the unupgraded version.

7) I would try to brainstorm what beings gain power through congregating and use that inspiration to proceed.

Well, when I did this and looked for a good way to tone it down, I hit upon a good permutation of this idea. Instead of entropy, it's Death, and instead of "Great Old Ones" it is "Conspirators". So once a number of "conspirators assemble, their master plan is sprung!

Like so:

(Artis Public domain, Brutus assassin of Ceasar)
Not sure if I should make a new thread for that or change this thread to the Conspirators.

Also I'll make the tweaks to the Great Old Ones now based on all the feedback. Thanks again

[OldTrees]

I would edit the opening post to conspirators.

A casting cost of 5 is good because it slows down fractal and makes Twin Universe viable but expensive.

Total Cost	Total Attack
5 + 1card	1
10 + 2cards	2
15 + 3cards	30
20 + 4cards	40
25 + 5cards	50
30 + 6cards	60

Might be too much of a buff when assembled or might be too little. A Turns to Win play-test study would help determine that I think. (although it would not be conclusive about needing a larger buff)

Also I think conspirators is more of a Darkness card (subtlety and planning) than a Death card (slow death and decay).

[March_Wizard]

I think I agree. The more I look at the Great Old Ones, the more I see that it wouldn't work. Many of the best Counters to it are also Entropy, destroying all quanta may be to drastic for players to like, and it saves the entire payoff for an explosive round, rather than offering much in the way of new gameplay. So I'll change it to Conspirator | Assassin, since I think that fits into elements more effectively.

[AnonymousRevival]

I would say that in the card text, it should be "If 3 or more Plotter cards it play, they will gain +9|+0."

[March_Wizard]

I want to avoid pronouns in the description, since they will inevitably lead to confusion. The current description only takes into account the individual card, and so hopefully it will be obvious that since each card has the same text, the bonus applies to all.

EDIT:
I know I already submitted this for consideration, but if you fellows could check out this permutation that just occurred to me.



I think Ghost fits with Death better than Conspirator, and making it -1 makes it a tricky card to play. If you lose one, it means your other 2 betray you and start healing the enemy Sounds like fun times to me. I figured the +2 hp was only fair after you get all the guys up, to make it a little bit harder to kill them once they are up, and still provide incentive for an opponent to seek to kill it earlier, rather than basking in the healings for too long.

[Malduk]

Pretty interesting concept. It does seem weakish though. If 3 are in play (upgraded), then each is 8|5 for 5 .
That would be okay if the card doesnt have drawback like it does... you practically need to wait to get at least 3 in hand, then play them at once, and CCing one betrayer practically CCes all 3, as two others start healing opponent instead of damaging it.
IMO, risk is much greater than reward.

[March_Wizard]

Yeah, I think I narrowed down the their post conspiracy stat to between 10|5 to 8|5

10|5 puts them on par with bone dragons damage, but at half the cost, and that seemed a little wanky to me. 8|5 does feel a tad low, though it would very much out damage any other 5 quanta creature, with the possible exception of the upgraded Gargoyle. 9|5 might be the ticket, but then it would vastly outstrip any other 5 quanta creature. In partnership with an Aether deck, you would only need 2 cards in your hand, Fractal and the Ghost, to  be effective. I don't think that will be overpowered, even with 10, but 8|5 should be quick enough to kill, while still giving the opponent a few fair rounds to defend himself.

Perhaps I'll make a poll with 10|5, 9|5, and 8|5 as the options.

Thanks for the feedback