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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 03:06:49 pm

Title: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 03:06:49 pm
Originally this was one for Nik_V's series, my idea of a weapon for life. That series is on hold, so posted as stand alone weapon now.
It recycles an idea I had for my champions/behemoth series.
This is my first weapon and I realise I'm not that good with weapon costing/balance, so feedback welcome :)


(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z295/rohlfo/frogstaffnew.png)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z295/rohlfo/lifestaffnew.png)
NAME:
Frog Staff
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
5 :life
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
2|5 (Flying)
TEXT:
Weapon: Deal 2 damage at the end of your turn.
  :life :life :life: Summon a Horned Frog.
NAME:
Life Staff
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
5 :life
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
3|6 (Flying)
TEXT:
Weapon:  Deal 3 damage at the end of your turn.
 :life :life :life: Summon a creature.
ART:
rohlfo
IDEA:
rohlfo
NOTES:
For both, ability can be used only once per turn.
For Life Staff:
20% Horned Frog
20% Rustler
20% Cockatrice
20% Forest Spirit
20% Forest Scorpion
SERIES:
options/issues/etc
- cost?
- attack|HP?
- % for Life Staff? (leave out Rustler/Forest Spirit)?
- ability cost?
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (Alternate Weapon Series)
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 25, 2011, 03:26:00 pm
I think people will call for a higher cost.
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 25, 2011, 07:17:41 pm
No offense, but do you realize how cheap and rushable this is?  You could just make a deck with this, Animate Weapon, some pillars, and then probably throw in some cross element support with a mark if needed.


Tiger is correct, this card needs a higher cost. I'd say increase the ability cost to 3  :life for both cards and in relation to FFQ increase the playing cost to at least 5  :life .  Also, capitalize "Deal" and "Summon".
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 07:31:16 pm
Quote from: rohlfo
This is my first weapon and I realise I'm not that good with weapon costing/balance
As you can see, this is definitely the case. I will think it through and try and come up with something better. Tricky with the summon cost, since if it's too high I think it wouldn't get much interest as the creatures are cheaper, but perhaps 3 :life is still ok, and then making weapon cost more.

The idea in general though - good one or a bit meh?
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 25, 2011, 07:38:01 pm
Quote from: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 07:31:16 pm
Quote from: rohlfo
This is my first weapon and I realise I'm not that good with weapon costing/balance
As you can see, this is definitely the case. I will think it through and try and come up with something better. Tricky with the summon cost, since if it's too high I think it wouldn't get much interest as the creatures are cheaper, but perhaps 3 :life is still ok, and then making weapon cost more.

The idea in general though - good one or a bit meh?
It's good for a first, I'm just trying to give constructive criticisim, but lol - Firefly Queens would be angry at this stealing their role in the rush/mutant decks. :D
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 08:57:10 pm
Quote from: Zblader on January 25, 2011, 07:38:01 pm
Quote from: rohlfo on January 25, 2011, 07:31:16 pm
Quote from: rohlfo
This is my first weapon and I realise I'm not that good with weapon costing/balance
As you can see, this is definitely the case. I will think it through and try and come up with something better. Tricky with the summon cost, since if it's too high I think it wouldn't get much interest as the creatures are cheaper, but perhaps 3 :life is still ok, and then making weapon cost more.

The idea in general though - good one or a bit meh?
It's good for a first, I'm just trying to give constructive criticisim, but lol - Firefly Queens would be angry at this stealing their role in the rush/mutant decks. :D
I know, it's what I need to improve this (and other) cards. I guess FFQ might be, but if an element is called "life" it should have a magic staff to create little critters (imo!)
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff
Post by: OldTrees on January 25, 2011, 09:03:04 pm
It is a good idea. Keep the effect just adjust the packaging (casting and activation costs)

This is a weapon that truly represents Life as well as the Druidic Staff does.
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: rohlfo on January 28, 2011, 12:06:43 am
updated, feedback welcome  :)
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: Glitch on January 28, 2011, 12:46:54 am
This card is better than druidic staff.
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: OldTrees on January 28, 2011, 12:51:48 am
Quote from: Gl1tch on January 28, 2011, 12:46:54 am
This card is better than druidic staff.
It costs more to.
However I assume you meant it was better even after taking the cost into account.
What would be the balanced price in your opinion?
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: Glitch on January 28, 2011, 01:04:07 am
The ability is just OP'd.  I'd take an infinite creature spawn over 5 healing any day.  Hell, I'd just stick with the unupped version.  This card is as broken as mitosis but it's not vulnerable to CC.
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 28, 2011, 01:04:27 am
Weapon Cost:
Unupped:
Attack : +0 (Dagger)
Ability Threat: +6 (FFQ Comparison)
Bonuses: -1 (Expensive Skill)
Final Cost : 5  :life

Upped(assuming the creatures spawned are unupped):
Attack: +0 (Dirk is superior to it)
Ability Threat: +6 (FFQ Comparison, is a bit more chancy, but balances with you possibly getting better cards)
Bonuses: -2 (Upgraded, Expensive)
Final Cost: 4  :life


Change the cost to 5  :life | 4  :life .

If people consider the card OP, here are some nerfs you could do:
Raise the casting cost to 6  :life | 5  :life .
Raise the ability cost to 4  :life .


Oh, and nice art!

EDIT: Gl1tch, while it's true it's a powerful effect, keep in mind it's a weapon. Weapons do powerful stuff. 
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: rohlfo on January 28, 2011, 01:17:59 am
Quote from: Zblader on January 28, 2011, 01:04:27 am
Upped(assuming the creatures spawned are unupped):
true.

Quote from: Zblader on January 28, 2011, 01:04:27 am
Change the cost to 5  :life | 4  :life .

If people consider the card OP, here are some nerfs you could do:
Raise the casting cost to 6  :life | 5  :life .
Raise the ability cost to 4  :life .


Oh, and nice art!
I don't want to raise cost of ability tbh, weapon would become more expensive if anything. Or, another option if too OP is to have it create baby horned frogs, at 1|1 or 2|2 lol.
thanks for breakdown, and if you think upped should be 4 :life then would you prefer that or get rid of the chance to get Rustler say? making all others 25% chance? Is an option.

Thanks about the art comment :) I'm still getting to grips with this whole digital art making stuff :s
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 28, 2011, 01:53:20 am
My personal opinion is to make the unupped cost 5  :life and the upped cost 4  :life to play.  I think you should keep the rustler in the spawning ability because it balanced out the spawning of the stronger creatures like Cockatrice and Scorpion.
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: OldTrees on January 28, 2011, 02:01:28 am
Quote from: Gl1tch on January 28, 2011, 01:04:07 am
The ability is just OP'd.  I'd take an infinite creature spawn over 5 healing any day.  Hell, I'd just stick with the unupped version.  This card is as broken as mitosis but it's not vulnerable to CC.
The ability is OP? Is creature generation so powerful that we must nerf FFQ? No.

Then it must be the vulnerability to PC instead of CC that is the problem? In the case of Venom (Forest Scorpion vs Arsenic) there was a multiple of x3/2 to the cost due to less PC than CC.
Since the ability  :life :life: Generate Horned Frog is worth 4 :life then the ability  :life :life: Generate Horned Frog on a weapon may be worth 6 :life.

So maybe it isn't the power that makes you avoid it but rather the greater versatility compared to Regenerate? Here I cannot fault you. Regenerate is not worth much due to the competition with SoG. Also low cost weapons are meant to be able to be played early but Regenerate is not very useful in the first few turns. Perhaps increasing the effect and cost of Druidic Staff would be enough to solve both problems? Cost 6 :life, Regenerate 15 sounds like it would compete as it should with SoG in Life decks.

If none of these was the reason for your comment Glitch then please enlighten me. I will always think of you as Life Master. I await your wisdom.

Good use of your theory ZBlader. However other weapons might not act the same as Elemental weapons.
My Theory on Elemental weapons (with lots of help from Nepycros)
Cost = Attack + Skill -3 (single slot)

Value of Skill if on a creature unupped 4 :life = 3 (creature value [not cost]) +2 (card generation) -1 (expensive)
Value of Skill if on a weapon unupped 6 :life = 3/2 x 4
Upgraded the average creature value (due to creating various unupped creatures) increases by .1 small enough to ignore.

So Cost 5 :life = 2|3 (attack) +6 (Skill) -3 (single slot) -0|1 (upgrade)
Title: Re: Frog Staff | Life Staff (updated)
Post by: rohlfo on January 28, 2011, 02:43:37 pm
Thanks for the great insight OldTrees! Makes me feel more confident about my choices!
And as you say, Druidic Staff is perhaps one of the weakest weapons due to SoG, so perhaps this would be a nice alternative option for life?

I kinda did it by feel sort of thing, Horned Frog costs 2 :life, but should cost 3 :life as you save a card, upgraded gives you more chance to get your money's worth, but random... cost I went with Zblader's suggestion of 5 :life as it seems to fit with the other more expensive weapons already in game...

I would enjoy reading a response from Gl1tch, otherwise do people think it's ready for submitting?
blarg: