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Offline Absol

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1018422#msg1018422
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 11:15:39 pm »
^
Those weakness are the exact same as Seraph's. Except Seraph can't benefit from global buff. (and double attack modifier too)

This card can be rephrased as "burrowed creatures suffer no damage penalty", making burrow just like switched Divine Shield. In-element. With infinite duration. To ALL burrowing creatures.

Compare Seraph.
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Offline furballdnTopic starter

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1018969#msg1018969
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 01:14:42 am »
Divine Shield is +1 card to indefinitely protect 1 creature.

This is +1 card + 3 :underworld for all your burrowed creatures. Burrowing is limited and also requires +1 turn.

1 card + 3 :underworld + 1 turn (each) makes it worth more than divine shield only if you have more than 3 burrowed creatures on your field, and not many games or decks can have more than 3 burrowed creatures out along with this in a reasonably paced game.

Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1019028#msg1019028
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2012, 10:03:00 am »
1st) Seraph is slightly broken and not very good for comparison, but I will compare it anyway.
2nd) Seraph is a single creature/ divine shield protects a single creature. Antaeus protects all your burrowed creatures.
3rd) Seraph has 1 hp; it can be killed by everything at the very first turn, even by a single thunderstorm. Shriekers & Elite Shriekers are beasts with 8|4 & 10|5 stats respectively. In other words, hard to kill in the very first turn.
4th) Divine shield has an off-element cost. Antaeus has an in-element cost.
5th) Unupped Shireker has a sweet Adrenaline spot of 8. Furthermore, :earth/ :gravity has lots of synergies and Momentum + Shrieker + Antaeus makes an unstoppable immortal beast.
6th) 3 or more Shriekers are not than difficult to come by. Remember, you can have up to 12 Shriekers within a deck (6 in Graboid form and 6 in Shrieker form).
7th) I repeat, this won't buff Antlions. It will buff Shriekers and, honestly, Shriekers/Graboids are the last creatures that need a buff in EtG!

nough said... I don't think I need to explain myself better than this, so I will just ignore this topic in the future. Sorry for that, Furball...
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Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1019049#msg1019049
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 01:41:29 pm »
unnuped shrieker has 3 hp, upped has 4 so you got that wrong. Why is it relevant for the unnuped shrieker to have a sweet spot for adrenaline? if you burrow it, you lose that sweetspot...

3 card combo that makes an unstopable and immortal creature? use PC to break Antaeus's Rage and CC to kill the shreiker before it burrows, remember that you can react to this combo! (and you forgot sundial btw so it IS stopable)

Of course its not hard to put more than 3 shreikers in play, but keep in mind that in order for that to be true, your deck needs to be centered on that detail in order to be able to do it consistently, so dont expect much room for ways to cover that 3 card combo against possible responses from the other deck

Offline Absol

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1019053#msg1019053
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2012, 01:46:28 pm »
Let me just say this.
This card turns every Shrieker on field into Seraph. With an :earth upkeep. While Seraph has X :light upkeep (X = number of Seraph)
Fragility, they're the same. One shot of Lightning to end it.
Upkeep, i have to say i prefer this over Seraph. Throw in a PA. It's in-element.
(and it's 2 card combo. Antaeus and PA.)

Compare Nightfall. +2 boost to creatures compared to +4 | +5 with a quanta upkeep the only difference.

EDIT: regarding immortal unstoppable creature, it's better to use Quint. The immortality won't be broken ever.
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Offline furballdnTopic starter

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Re: Antaeus's Rage | Antaeus's Rage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44067.msg1019194#msg1019194
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 06:50:52 am »
1st) Seraph is slightly broken and not very good for comparison, but I will compare it anyway.
I do not agree Seraph is broken. 10|1 stats warrants 9 :underworld, and the ability with an off quanta upkeep is not worth more than 1 :underworld
2nd) Seraph is a single creature/ divine shield protects a single creature. Antaeus protects all your burrowed creatures.
True, which means that this will only start being more efficient if you have lots of creatures. Fielding lots of graboids/shriekers is quite costly sometimes, and this encourages antlion use
3rd) Seraph has 1 hp; it can be killed by everything at the very first turn, even by a single thunderstorm. Shriekers & Elite Shriekers are beasts with 8|4 & 10|5 stats respectively. In other words, hard to kill in the very first turn.
Shrieker has 3|4 hp actually, but there is not too large of a difference between them. As long as Seraph survives the first turn it's invincible; how many people pack thunderstorms? The only card I can say in the meta that affects seraph more than it does shrieker is firewall. Otherwise, any CC card that is used a lot can kill shrieker as well. (Lightning is the most used, with rage pot, fire bolt, and shockwave next). Unless a creature has more than 5hp, I would not call it sturdy, since creatures from [1-5]hp fall within the same bracket of being easily kill-able.
4th) Divine shield has an off-element cost. Antaeus has an in-element cost.
In my calculations, both are worth +1 card, but yes, you are correct in saying that they are not exactly equal. The cost of an off element upkeep is more than the cost of an in element upkeep. I do not see it as being more than 1 :underworld though.
5th) Unupped Shireker has a sweet Adrenaline spot of 8. Furthermore, :earth/ :gravity has lots of synergies and Momentum + Shrieker + Antaeus makes an unstoppable immortal beast.
That is already a 3 card combo, and seemingly very impractical. 4 cards + 12 :earth + 4 :life + 1 turn for an invincible 15 atk creature is not OP. A 15 invincible attack creature should cost around 23-24 :underworld. 4 cards + 12 :earth + 4 :life + 1 turn ~= 25+ :underworld
6th) 3 or more Shriekers are not than difficult to come by. Remember, you can have up to 12 Shriekers within a deck (6 in Graboid form and 6 in Shrieker form).
Very true, but having one of these on the field slows down your production dramatically. It'll cause you to have 1-2 less than if you didn't have it, and ever single creature you own unburrowed with this is bad for you because of inefficiency.
7th) I repeat, this won't buff Antlions. It will buff Shriekers and, honestly, Shriekers/Graboids are the last creatures that need a buff in EtG!
Graboid/Shrieker can be nerfed. This will make decks based on antlions like fractal antlions much more powerful since this is a card that encourages number

nough said... I don't think I need to explain myself better than this, so I will just ignore this topic in the future. Sorry for that, Furball...
I do not know how to respond to such a comment, but whatever floats your boat.

I noticed I forgot to factor the :earth upkeep in my earlier calculations. This is 2 cards + 3 :earth for immortality for all burrowed creatures.
2 cards + 3 :earth ~= 5 :underworld.

Seraph is 9X :fire + 2X cards for immortal 9 (10) hitter. 13X :underworld + 1 turn for immortal 10 (12) X damage per turn.
This and shriekers is 8X :earth + X cards + 1 :earth + 2 cards + 3 :earth + 1 turn for immortal 8 (10) hitter. 10X + 8 :underworld + 1 turn for immortal 8 (10) hitter.

Looking at it this way, the relative price would be around the same if you have 3 attackers, and you'd only get quanta advantage if you had 4 or more shriekers, but even then, seraphs do more damage than shriekers do.

A Shrieker can also be seen as 1 card + 3 :earth + 1 :time + 1 turn, but that means you'll need two whole turns before you can get the "combo" ready, a bit long to be too practical.

Eclipse is 1 card + 4 :darkness for +2X damage.
This is 2 cards + 2 :earth + 1 turn + X :earth for +4 (5) X damage, and that's if, and only if, you're using shriekers.

Nightfall/eclipse is much more flexible since it can be used alongside devourers for denial, and vampires for extra healing.

 

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