Extract | Extract

[The_Mormegil]

Why is Extract a Water card? O.o would fit better with Earth IMO, unless I'm missing something.

Also, I'd like it more if it wasn't this "extreme". Something like lower cost lower benefit would be better in my opinion...

[Pineapple]

Why is Extract a Water card? O.o would fit better with Earth IMO, unless I'm missing something.

Also, I'd like it more if it wasn't this "extreme". Something like lower cost lower benefit would be better in my opinion...

Extract is Water because Water is the duo element. In addition, you can't really Extract something out of the earth (you dig stuff out of the earth), but extracting aqueous substances from things isn't too far-fetched.

If you want something "less extreme", go use a Cremation. I repeat, this card idea is in no way Cremation for Water, and should not be regarded as such.

I see that there are people voting "overpowered" without commenting on my justifications for its balance. I guess I'll just have to ignore the polls until someone provides something objective..

[Chapuz]

With this version, if you target an artic squid:
unupped: cost 6 for 15  gain. Total  gain = 9.
upped: Cost 2 for 9  gain. Total  gain = 7.

Correct. Following that, your claim is...?

That targeting the squid, you win more  quanta with the unupped one.

[Amheug-ui Maseuteo]

As a point, I think the ability to target permanents should be taken away. That leaves it open to some serious abuse imo.

 

[Pineapple]

With this version, if you target an artic squid:
unupped: cost 6 for 15  gain. Total  gain = 9.
upped: Cost 2 for 9  gain. Total  gain = 7.

Correct. Following that, your claim is...?

That targeting the squid, you win more  quanta with the unupped one.

That's only if you have 6+ Water quanta. But if you have 6+ water quanta, that mean the difference is between 15+ water quanta and 13+ water quanta. In other words, there isn't really a difference in quanta generation.
Couple with it that you can barely ever play the unupgraded version, and it is impossible to fit it into viable decks with its insane cost and little gain. I don't see how you can think that the upgraded version, which can easily be played on the very first turn, is weaker than the unupgraded version because of you "only" gain 77.8% of the quanta you would in the unupgraded.

As a point, I think the ability to target permanents should be taken away. That leaves it open to some serious abuse imo.

 

And an example of the aforementioned "serious abuse" would be...?

[Amheug-ui Maseuteo]

I misread, I was thinking you could just target the pillars. My bad, they're not too bad.

[Daguerreo]

Weird. I initially had this card much stronger, but I nerfed it to the current version. I didn't expect everyone to say it was overpowered...

The main reason why extreme quanta generation would be overpowered is because it is too fast (Sorry, Nepycros, but bolt decks are only viable with pillars). However, unupgraded Extract is underpowered because of just that: There is no way to consistently get out any damage at all within the first two turns. Immolation decks can drop their entire hand on the very first turn, however, Extract decks need 3 turns... Even a pillar deck can drop their hand in 3 turns!

In addition, since Extract costs so much, your deck needs to invest heavily in Water quanta. This is intended, if you want to utilize the "overpowered" unupgraded Extract, you need to use Water; you can't just add 6 copies of Extract and 3 copies of Squids and expect to power the other 5 Extracts with the first Extract, because to play the first Extract you need to have added enough towers to generate 9 early enough.

In my eyes, I believe that unupgraded Extract is perfectly balanced, if not underpowered. However, I will decrease the quanta gain to 15/20.

I Agree.
needs something like this and I'll support you card

[mega plini]

Water does need something to make it duo with other elements. This card does that. Unfortunately I don't see much use for the unupped version, the upped is simpely better.

[Pineapple]

Water does need something to make it duo with other elements. This card does that. Unfortunately I don't see much use for the unupped version, the upped is simpely better.

Thanks for the support ^^
About the upped version being better than the unupped verison, well, would you ever use Lava Golem over Lava Destroyer? xD
In addition, in a deck where 6 is just as easy to come by than 2 , the unupped is better because it generates more quanta (+2 net quanta and +6 quanta of that element). Compare 3 unupped extracts being able to power 3 steam machines and 4 rain of fires vs. using 6 upped extracts to do the same.

[Olevar]

The card idea is perfect.  element need something just like this. But I think it is still overpovered. Chance to get a big amount of mana at once, without using pillars or pendulums of the other element is quite an advantage. It also opens possibilities for rainbow decks. Upped should cost 3 . It will make combination with supernova less efective. Unupped could have same effect(9/12) but 1 more expensive.