Extinguish | Extinguish

[OldTrees]

Hmm, it seems the idea is already flushed in another way I expected.

Thanks for the feedback so far - all in all, I still would like to see a natural counter for Fire.

Why do you want to add an elemental hoser?

[Tiko]

Why do you want to add an elemental hoser?

Please, explain me what 'hoser' is, the meaning escapes me.

[Pineapple]

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Hoser (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Hoser)

[OldTrees]

Why do you want to add an elemental hoser?

Please, explain me what 'hoser' is, the meaning escapes me.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Hoser (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Hoser)

To summarize the effect: You punish your opponent for their choice of element. Not their choice of cards, their strategy or their tactics but their elemental loyalties. Why do you want this?

[dracomageat]

How about "Sacrifice a water pillar to absorb 4|5 random quanta from the opponent. Absorbs an additional 2 quanta for every 10 in your possession if the opponent's mark is Fire."?

I think that gives it some use outside of being a fire counter without making it an all situation good card.

[OldTrees]

How about "Absorbs 5 random quanta from the opponent. Absorbs an additional 2 quanta for every 10 in your possession if the opponent's mark is Fire."?

I think that gives it some use outside of being a fire counter but not that much.

You are underestimating its use against other decks. This would be a good version of the card suggestion but even better would be to remove the underlined part.

[Pineapple]

The reason Tiko wants to make a hoser for fire is because fire has the card with the greatest alternate quanta generation and indubitably the greatest form of instant quanta generation. We have denial for rainbows and decks that use pillars, why can't we have denial for cremation decks?

[OldTrees]

The reason Tiko wants to make a hoser for fire is because fire has the card greatest alternate quanta generation and possibly the greatest form of instant quanta generation. We have denial for rainbows and a deck that uses pillars, why can't we have a denial for cremation decks?

Denial for instant quanta generation (as far as it is possible because most is used on the turn of generation) like cremation, supernova, Rustler and future cards would be a fair and balance-able idea.
Denial for cremation and Fire in general would not be a good card idea.
The difference between the two ideas is significant.

[Tiko]

To summarize the effect: You punish your opponent for their choice of element. Not their choice of cards, their strategy or their tactics but their elemental loyalties. Why do you want this?

Thanks for clearing that up for me. But 'punishment' is a harsh word here, OldTrees - as I said before, it wouldn't be as bad as it looks for first. Fire has already ridiculously speedy means of gaining quanta paired with a 'the more there is the bigger it hits' principle. And the time you collect up like 40 or so quanta, you'll most likely to be dead anyways.

But forget this, I see your point.

Still, what happens with an oiled up campfire if you pour it with a bucket of water? I only wanted to make this, because it's logical. Water has no means to stop Fire in the current environment, not even with freezes.

Anyhow, as I said, the card will be reworked, to not to be a 'hoser', and to be more universal/less specific. A bit later.

[OldTrees]

Thanks for the change to a more general and versatile version!

I like the idea of giving water the ability to wash quanta away.

[Pineapple]

@Tiko: how does sacrificing a pillar extinguish a fire? Both thematically, balance-wise (if force the user to sacrifice a pillar, then we need to buff its affect so much that it will be either extremely OP or extremely UP, like purify), and for the meta-game (less situational).

Also, if you need any ideas:

I think you should change the name and make it absorb fire, death, light, earth, life, and air quanta because those are the elements of quanta that can be generated with alternative (non-pillar) quanta generation. 2-3 for every 5 water quanta would be a nice number for the absorb. Black hole can absorb up to 36 quanta for 3 , and this would absorb up to 12-18 for 0 , up to 24-36 for 5 , and up to 36-54 for 10 .

[Tiko]

@Tiko: how does sacrificing a pillar extinguish a fire? [...]

As the text says: Sacrifice a (Water) Pillar :]