Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: jallenw on April 18, 2010, 10:47:16 pm

Title: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 18, 2010, 10:47:16 pm
This is 1 of 12 Mounts created by Jallen for easy access to all 12 check out the Mount topic: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5476.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5476.0.html)
(http://meowsquish.webs.com/junk/cards/DivinePony.png)
(http://meowsquish.webs.com/junk/cards/DivineStallion.png)
NAME:
Divine Pony
ELEMENT:
Light
COST:
8 :light
TYPE:
Creature, Mount
ATT/HP:
3/3
ABILITY:
Salvation: If your hp is reduced to 1 or less Divine Pony heals you for 50 hp and loses this ability.
.
ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION:
Mounts are creatures, but like weapons and shields, you can only have 1 mount in play at a time.
ART BY:
Christy Freeman
CARD IDEA BY:
Jallen
NAME:
Divine Stallion
ELEMENT:
Light
COST:
9 :light
TYPE:
Creature, Mount
ATT/HP:
2/4
ABILITY:
Salvation: If your hp is reduced to 1 or less Divine Stallion heals you for 50 hp and loses this ability.
.
ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION:
Mounts are creatures, but like weapons and shields, you can only have 1 mount in play at a time.
ART BY:
Christy Freeman
CARD IDEA BY:
Jallen
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: coinich on April 18, 2010, 11:05:13 pm
Wait, so I pay 15+ :light to reduce my max HP by half?
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 18, 2010, 11:22:19 pm
Not max hp, current hp.  You use it when you are below 50 hp.  Don't use it if you already have more than 50 hp.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: CB! on April 19, 2010, 01:51:14 am
I love all the mount card ideas.  I would suggest minor miracle healing to 75% of your total HP, to compliment shard of divinity and stone skin...
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 19, 2010, 02:24:10 am
I specifically decided not to heal to a percent of your total life for that reason.  I wanted this card's ability to be a tiny version of miracle, otherwise it would be too overpowered.  I mean, you could possibly use it every turn if you built a deck around it, and with a 6 shard deck, even 50% would put you over 100 each turn.  I elected to simply pump you up to 50 each turn, as it is, I think this card may still need to be nerfed a bit.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: dragonhuman on April 19, 2010, 04:53:20 am
if its a tiny bit of health it should maybe cost 10/9 because it does have some backfires, and besides most enemies could do 50 damage aturn easily if you are forced to get to this pint
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Arondight on April 19, 2010, 06:06:41 am
I like the idea of this mount. It doesn't seem that overpowered, but when you think about it, against real players, a lot of them win by only a few cards dealing steady damage to you until your HP reaches zero. This would be a nightmare, considering how Shards of Gratitude have such an impact to PvP at this moment.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: xdude on April 19, 2010, 07:55:35 pm
OK, I officially don't like the pony name.and I think the effect is OP. Making it be a % of your max HP is better. I mean, Miracle is supposed to "Miraculously" save you, but just getting you at 50 HP will only make you last 1, maybe 2 more turns.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 19, 2010, 08:05:47 pm
Yeah, and in 1 maybe 2 more turns you could have 15 light quanta again.  This card is uber powerful against both FGs and PvP and still needs a nerf, I'm trying to figure out what I can do to nerf it...
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: xdude on April 19, 2010, 10:03:26 pm
Yeah, and in 1 maybe 2 more turns you could have 15 light quanta again.  This card is uber powerful against both FGs and PvP and still needs a nerf, I'm trying to figure out what I can do to nerf it...
So, you're just gonna use all your Light quanta every 2 turns while he gets more and more creatures and eventually manages to kill you? Yeah, fair enough...
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 19, 2010, 10:30:13 pm
Um, if I need to use the miracle ability, then I should have some offensive cards out that will be killing my opponent, while I constantly heal to 50 life.  You can't just assume that this is the only card I have in play. 
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 19, 2010, 11:58:29 pm
except most players can get out more than 50 damage.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on April 20, 2010, 12:00:36 am
Its a bit underpowered, i would say 75-80% just so its worth the high cost yet is not as good as miracle.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 20, 2010, 12:15:31 am
Miracle has the potential to heal 98 life, or if you use shards/stone skin miracle can heal as much as 518 life, but that's not a common scenario.  Most of the time, miracle heals from 60 to 90 life.  This card can heal a maximum of 49 life in one turn.  Let's say the average is 25 life per use.

Now, let's go with a high estimate of Miracle, and say it heals 90.

That means that with just 4 uses of Divine Pony's ability, you have healed around 100 life, but with 1 Miracle you have healed 90 life.

And you still have the Divine Pony to use again and again.

The fact that it is a creature with an ability makes if vastly superior to a single-shot spell, even if it's ability is only a fraction of the comparative spell.

As an example, what's better? 1 Golden Hourglass, or Upgraded Precognition?  Obviously the hourglass is better, but the cost for drawing 1 card with Golden Hourglass is 6  :time(4 to put it into play, 2 to use the ability) while Upgraded Precognition costs  :time.  The fact that golden hourglass remains in play and can be used every turn makes it much more powerful than precog, even though it costs 6 times as much.

This card is not underpowered. It might be overpowered.
Jallen
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 20, 2010, 12:19:10 am
except you dont need 15 time pillars to fuel an Hourglass. Anyways, who said i cant take this out with a thunderbolt? Plus, if you get this in your starting hand, its pretty much a dead card.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 20, 2010, 12:23:18 am
Okay, but if I change it to even something as simple as 50% instead of 50 life, then people would just use this card 6 shards, and 15 light pillars.  After the 6 shards, their total life would be 220, this card would heal them to 110 each turn.  Because of the shards and stone skin, this card would be way overpowered if it healed a percentage of your total health.

So if you have any suggestions that do not include changing the healing to a percentage, I'm open to your suggestions, but changing it to a percentage is out of the question.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 20, 2010, 12:24:58 am
But if you spend all that time setting that up, by that time i'll have you rushed to death.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on April 20, 2010, 12:29:02 am
most decks can do well over 100 damage if set up right, the fact that this ONLY heals 50 makes it underpowered, the fact that it drains all quanta and costs the same as miracle makes it underpowered, the fact is that sure it might be used but it can be easily countered, a % or at least an increase in healing would have to be done to make this card worth the high cost and the fact that you have to play this then wait another turn to use its ability.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 20, 2010, 12:29:37 am
Ok, imagine Ray Of Light, Fractal, Hope, Miracle, Light Dragon, Divine Stallion decks.  RoL/Hope is already a powerful deck.  This card would greatly increase mono-light's power.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on April 20, 2010, 12:34:08 am
yes but, you wont need that card, adding cards to a deck increases the chance you wont get the one card you need, imagine a starting hand with 6 of these, your dead in the water until you get more cards that could be better used on say another aether tower or dragon
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 20, 2010, 12:37:35 am
Ok, imagine Ray Of Light, Fractal, Hope, Miracle, Light Dragon, Divine Stallion decks.  RoL/Hope is already a powerful deck.  This card would greatly increase mono-light's power.
Okay, try to balance that out.RoL/Hope can be overcome by plenty of things, same as this card.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: xdude on April 20, 2010, 11:50:24 am
You really can't see the reality Jallenw, can you? You keep arguing to everyone that it is not OP but UP. The votes says something different, all of us say something different. You are the only one who voted for it to be OP. Why can't you just admit you're wrong?
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: the dictator on April 20, 2010, 05:09:34 pm
I think this card is underpowered to, maybe make it cost less and/or increase the light stallions hp, because this is really easily countered.

The light stallions are to brittle now, that makes them pretty useless, because they are way to easy killed. Maybe making them immortal might help.

O, and I think Unicorn / Elite Unicorn is a better name, because they are white (light) and a miracle themselves too.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: dekskose on April 20, 2010, 05:38:23 pm
op????? its no way op i think its balanced couse it can max heals you too 50 and second  alot of people say taht RoL/hope is so powerfull its effective against some decks i mean plague thunderstorm oty RoF all those cards simply kill this deck and then you got also a boneyard and done so its not so op also with this card i mean it haws only 1/2 attack and 4 life you can kill it with no problem and you also can have just one on the field
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 20, 2010, 07:08:18 pm
I really dont see the problem in changing it to a %.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on April 20, 2010, 07:10:38 pm
just because a deck can have alot of HP dosent mean that this card is OP if its a %

lol survive decks would love this card if it was a %
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: xdude on April 20, 2010, 07:11:13 pm
I really dont see the problem in changing it to a %.
IMO, 50 max HP is too little. I'd go for, say, 60% of max HP - 1 or something.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on April 20, 2010, 07:13:47 pm
I really dont see the problem in changing it to a %.
IMO, 50 max HP is too little. I'd go for, say, 60% of max HP - 1 or something.
something like that would be nice.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 20, 2010, 09:35:12 pm
You really can't see the reality Jallenw, can you? You keep arguing to everyone that it is not OP but UP. The votes says something different, all of us say something different. You are the only one who voted for it to be OP. Why can't you just admit you're wrong?
I have not voted on any of my polls. 

yes but, you wont need that card, adding cards to a deck increases the chance you wont get the one card you need, imagine a starting hand with 6 of these, your dead in the water until you get more cards that could be better used on say another aether tower or dragon
why the heck would you put 6 of these in a deck?  You can only have 1 in play.

I really dont see the problem in changing it to a %.
As I have already explained, when combined with shards of divinity, this card would be way overpowered if it healed a percentage of total max hp.

I understand that you all think that this card is underpowered, and I appreciate your input, but the only person that would convince me to change this card to a percentage of total max hp would be zanz.  If you have any other suggestions for changing the card OTHER than making it a percentage of max hp, then let me know.

Jallen
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 20, 2010, 09:43:16 pm
I doubt you can manage to make a deck that can use this with SoDs if it were a % before i kill you.. Healing to 110 Isnt going to win the game for you.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Kael Hate on April 21, 2010, 12:58:46 pm

I ran this through some test games against AI3 and AI5. It was quite easy to setup a regeneration of 80 per then setup a win solution. Very slow and often less efficient at winning but very efficient at stalling out.

Its OP status is subjective to the goal of the deck. If you can setup the 12 :light gain per turn then this locks out any deck that cannot muster 50 damage per turn. Add Hope,  Permafrost, Spine Carapace, Diamond shield then the lockout becomes even stronger. It will likely be very strong against false gods.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 21, 2010, 01:09:20 pm
THe problem with that is, MOST decks can must more than 50 damage per turn. If your adding hope/permafrost/spine carapace/diamond shield, I assume that is a rainbow. What FGs do you assume this can beat? o.0
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 21, 2010, 01:22:04 pm
The fact that this card can't single-handedly destroy FGs or pvp and needs support in order to work well means that it is balanced, not underpowered.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 21, 2010, 01:36:59 pm
No, If it could Singlehandedly destroy FGs, it would be overpowered. even if you built a deck around this, I doubt this will keep you alive at all. This card can be killed easily. Healing to 110(if it was changed to 50% and you use 6 SoDs) isnt going to win it for you. By the time you get this out and can use it, its most likely  mid-late game when your either going to beat down the opponent, or get beat down.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on April 21, 2010, 01:47:17 pm
I really dont see the problem in changing it to a %.
I am aware the you think it is underpowered right now.  Other than your above suggestion.  What would you recommend?
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Baily18 on April 21, 2010, 01:49:12 pm
You could either raise the base it heals to, or change the skill to something more unique.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Kael Hate on May 06, 2010, 01:05:55 pm
CURATOR COMMENT
- Happy with this? its been debated alot and you suggested yourself it was Overpowered. Most of the Gods can be shutdown with this and a good defensive solution. Consider that 50hp is more than 2hp prevention per opposing creature, and it can be used in addition to other SoGs, Feral Bonds, and Various Shields including the in element and Light fueling Ray'o'Light Hope combination.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on May 07, 2010, 05:42:27 am
not happy with it, but can't figure out what I can change to keep the same concept and balance it out
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: thekillergame on May 07, 2010, 08:09:43 am
not happy with it, but can't figure out what I can change to keep the same concept and balance it out
let it heal more like 75 hp orso.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: CB! on May 07, 2010, 01:36:08 pm
not happy with it, but can't figure out what I can change to keep the same concept and balance it out
The problem I have with it, is that it just doesn't heal enough to justify the cost... especially since it uses all your light quanta.  With the upgraded version you need 21 light quanta to get your first 50 hp heal... I know a deck can be designed to use the ability every turn, but I still couldn't see myself taking this card over a couple of miracles.  At least make it a percentage, so you can still keep the synergy with SoD...
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on May 07, 2010, 08:43:22 pm
Kael Hate:

You and I agree that this card, as is, is overpowered.

Nearly every other person that has replied to this thread claims that this card is underpowered.

I just don't know what to do.  The card needs to be nerfed, but everyone just continues to suggest buffs.

Possible Nerfs:
Stasis Divine Pony for 1 turn after it uses this ability.
Divine Pony drains 4 light quanta at the end of each of your turns.

Possible Complete Changes:
15 :light : Minor Miracle. Reduce your max hp by 20. Heal yourself to your max hp -1. This expends all of your remaining light quanta.

Let me know what you think,
Jallen
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: killsdazombies on May 07, 2010, 09:38:08 pm
actually this is cool.... i like that better.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Kael Hate on May 08, 2010, 08:45:25 pm
Kael Hate:

You and I agree that this card, as is, is overpowered.

Nearly every other person that has replied to this thread claims that this card is underpowered.

I just don't know what to do.  The card needs to be nerfed, but everyone just continues to suggest buffs.

Possible Nerfs:
Stasis Divine Pony for 1 turn after it uses this ability.
Divine Pony drains 4 light quanta at the end of each of your turns.

Possible Complete Changes:
15 :light : Minor Miracle. Reduce your max hp by 20. Heal yourself to your max hp -1. This expends all of your remaining light quanta.

Let me know what you think,
Jallen
Oddly no-one seems to have disputed my posts, just ignored them altogehter.

Would you consider a whole change? Mounts are only One in play at a time, why not combine that with an effect that you should only be able to trigger once? Have the Pony Heal 50 health when you take damage that would reduce you below zero. Let the pony do it for free. Another option is that it blocks all damage that would kill you leaving you on 1 health at end of turn then it dies. Saved by the skin o your teeth, thats a miracle.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: CB! on May 09, 2010, 12:14:55 am
Oddly no-one seems to have disputed my posts, just ignored them altogehter.

Would you consider a whole change? Mounts are only One in play at a time, why not combine that with an effect that you should only be able to trigger once? Have the Pony Heal 50 health when you take damage that would reduce you below zero. Let the pony do it for free. Another option is that it blocks all damage that would kill you leaving you on 1 health at end of turn then it dies. Saved by the skin o your teeth, thats a miracle.
I really like this...
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: jallenw on May 09, 2010, 08:49:19 pm
Card has been updated with new changes.
Title: Re: Divine Pony | Divine Stallion
Post by: Avenger on May 14, 2010, 08:33:17 am
The pony won't die, so, rewinds and this can still be useful. Ok, it will have some cost... And not in a pure light deck.
Changed my vote from OP to balanced.
blarg: