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Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212424#msg212424
« on: November 29, 2010, 11:46:19 am »
NAME:
Diffusion
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
4 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Shuffle one card from opponent's hand back into his deck.
NAME:
Dispersion
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Shuffle one card from opponent's hand back into his deck.
ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/195817
IDEA:
johannhowitzer
NOTES:
A card is picked at random from the opponent's hand, then placed in a random location among the cards remaining in his deck.
This cannot be used to avoid deckout, as it cannot target the caster.
SERIES:
None
"Watch as I scatter your hope to the four winds."

Some notes about my thought process:

- I considered making this card a permanent that reshuffled one card per turn, unstackable, but that seemed too powerful.  Also considered a permanent with charges, but figured that was needlessly complex.
- I am unsure about the cost, especially as Reverse Time | Rewind costs so much less, however...
- The main benefit of this card is that the opponent doesn't get to draw this card back the very next turn, unlike Rewind.  This has the potential either to fizzle on a worthless card, or to screw your opponent out of a card he really needed.  I believe this keeps with Entropy's theme.
- A downside compared to Rewind: since you can't force your opponent to keep drawing the same card over and over, this spell doesn't have the same lockout potential as Eternity.

Offline Nepycros

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212452#msg212452
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 12:45:55 pm »
The only problem is, you can play a ton of these all at once, and then your opponent is left with an empty hand and a larger deck. Any thoughts as how to correct this, anyone?

My suggestion, they draw one card and shuffle a different one back. Hand destruction isn't always a favored card.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212472#msg212472
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 01:35:34 pm »
This effect is less useful than rewind by itself (they will not have to pay quanta twice) however this card gains more synergy with itself than multiple rewinds do. I think that it currently has a balanced cost.

I think changing it to shuffle target player's hand into their deck and then they draw an equal number of cards would work as an alternative.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212766#msg212766
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 08:40:39 pm »
The only problem is, you can play a ton of these all at once, and then your opponent is left with an empty hand and a larger deck. Any thoughts as how to correct this, anyone?

My suggestion, they draw one card and shuffle a different one back. Hand destruction isn't always a favored card.
Remember that when you play one of these, your hand shrinks by one card too.  If you play four or five at once, you and your opponent will both be left with empty hands.

Drawing a replacement card would actually potentially be in favor of the opponent, it'd be like adding an Hourglass effect on top of the card's effect.  Thanks for the input, but this isn't a direction I'm going to go.  ;)

This effect is less useful than rewind by itself (they will not have to pay quanta twice) however this card gains more synergy with itself than multiple rewinds do. I think that it currently has a balanced cost.

I think changing it to shuffle target player's hand into their deck and then they draw an equal number of cards would work as an alternative.
I see the card as similar to Discord or Mutation - it's a mixed bag.  You could "rewind" something devastating, or you could actually help your opponent (say, if he wants to Fractal and you just reshuffled a pillar or something).  It would actually be most useful in non-mono decks, say something like  :entropy :aether with Mindgate or  :entropy :life Elf/Druid-stall.

In fact I just thought of a very neat synergy:  :entropy :time.  Use Procrastination and you can actually plan out your Dispersions to have a better chance of reshuffling a critical card!  These days most people use Procrastination to shrink their deck ideas to "24 cards," this would give a bit more usefulness to the espionage aspect.

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212825#msg212825
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 09:32:10 pm »
Do you choose, or the opponent choose?
Ignotum venit retro vivere. :aether :light

Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212951#msg212951
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 11:10:12 pm »
Quote
A card is picked at random from the opponent's hand, then placed in a random location among the cards remaining in his deck.
Neither.

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg212968#msg212968
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 11:24:16 pm »
i like the idea, it goes great with entropy, but the opponent reshuffles their hand into their deck and draws a new one idea by OldTrees is something i like more, just my input, how about you put a poll up

Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg213037#msg213037
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 12:00:47 am »
That would make this card worthless.  You waste a valuable draw to gamble at trading out an opponent's card rather than simply limiting his options.  Of course the :entropy :time combo with Procrastination is still marginally useful, but all the flexibility of the card would still be gone.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg213058#msg213058
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 12:16:41 am »
Why not combine the two ideas? The target Player (So that it can target you) shuffles their hand into their deck and draws 1 less card than they had before this card was played.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg213066#msg213066
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 12:21:08 am »
Combined with Procrastination, that is a bit TOO powerful.  It's a panic-button that affects your opponent's entire hand, and in any deck that incorporates :entropy it can be a free mid-game mulligan.

Entropybows alone would go gaga over this for the speed boost it would afford, from an element automatically supported by their Mark.

I've decided I'm happy with the idea, but reducing the cost by one before submission to the Crucible.

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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg213072#msg213072
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 12:24:00 am »
Good point. I only suggested the forced mulligan idea as a backup if the community rejected your original idea.
I prefer the 1 card shuffle myself.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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Re: Diffusion | Dispersion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16598.msg213435#msg213435
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 07:21:22 am »
What Dune Scorpion was supposed to do (sort of but not really). ^^;;

One thing that I like about this card is that it (technically) empowers the :darkness :entropy duo more when combined with Nightmare - not only do you screw them over of a potentially important tide-turner, but you also fill their hand with cards that they don't need. Since Diffusion shuffles the card randomly in the deck (it could be the last card! :o), the power from this may be stronger than I would initially suspect...

 

anything
blarg: