Death Toll | Death Toll

[Scaredgirl]

Firefly Produces Light
Elite Firefly produces Fire

Why do you have to use that Combination?

Every Card with an out of element Activator doesn't force you to play those elements over any other combination but gives you a benefit for doing so. These quanta cards give you a benefit fo playing that group of elements. You are not disadvantaged for not playing with this card in this combination. If you believe you are, then you must think that all cards must be identical in all elements just to make it fair.

Yes, Firefly is a perfect example of this problem. Rustler is too. Both of these seriously limit deck building because they don't give much options, which is also why these cards are rarely used for only quanta production.

However I don't see it as that big of a problem because they only produce ONE different quanta, and once we get more cards, new strategies might arise. Even one of my own ideas produces both and .

The key thing here is that you made a card whose sole purpose is to replace Pillars, and you picked and chose the 7 elements for us.

As a conclusion, things that I don't like with this idea:

- The number 7 doesn't fit with 12 elements
- All seven elements were picked only with the card theme in mind without taking into consideration the opposing elements or anything like that
- no real "system" behind all this, everything is based on a decomposing corpse
- randomness in a wrong way because this card may produce 7 quanta, or it may produce 0 quanta (always producing 2 or 4 quanta would fit the game better imo)
- players are forced to use the pre-picked 7 elements

[Kael Hate]

Yes, Firefly is a perfect example of this problem. Rustler is too. Both of these seriously limit deck building because they don't give much options, which is also why these cards are rarely used for only quanta production.

They Don't limit options, they give you options. Its why Firequeen can run Farenheit and Fire Lance without any other Fire Quanta producers.

However I don't see it as that big of a problem because they only produce ONE different quanta, and once we get more cards, new strategies might arise. Even one of my own ideas produces both and .

The key thing here is that you made a card whose sole purpose is to replace Pillars, and you picked and chose the 7 elements for us.

It only replaces pillars if you want to play the elements it offers. If you don't want to use the combination given you can use quantum towers or nova or Pillars of the combitation you want to use. How is the elements world worse because of this or any of the Artifact quanta producers in the same section as this card?

As a conclusion, things that I don't like with this idea:

- The number 7 doesn't fit with 12 elements
- All seven elements were picked only with the card theme in mind without taking into consideration the opposing elements or anything like that
- no real "system" behind all this, everything is based on a decomposing corpse
- randomness in a wrong way because this card may produce 7 quanta, or it may produce 0 quanta (always producing 2 or 4 quanta would fit the game better imo)
- players are forced to use the pre-picked 7 elements

Some are random some are fixed, it depends on the ratio of gain to production. The forest of Shadows always gives you 2 from the list, this card the Carnal Reclamation or whatever it will be called gives you  over an infinte period of time a ratio of results close to 2.1 quanta per turn. The technical part of the game is your going to have to work out how to get the best out of it. It also gains a mechanical advantage for cycling creaure deaths, if the range was an even 4 then the the production you would be getting more reliable forcing the value of the card higher in its best situation but making it unplayable outside of that situation. There is reason for for choosing 7 elements. There is no need to balance quanta production between elements unless that card causes the definition of a new environment in which case the card is overpowered.

If you don't like it I guess you won't vote for it.
Persons who do and want a variety of Quanta Generators should.

[Scaredgirl]

They Don't limit options, they give you options. Its why Firequeen can run Farenheit and Fire Lance without any other Fire Quanta producers.

That's false logic. You are assuming that the choices are having a card or not having a card. That's not true. The real choice is having a card or having some other card.

Lets take Rustler as an example. It always produces . That means that if you build a deck using Rustlers, you will most likely have high cost creatures as well, which limits your options dramatically.

If Rustler produced quanta of your mark, it would open up a whole new world of possibilities in terms of deck building. It would of course hurt the theme, but it would improve gameplay.

That is what I mean when I talk about limiting options. It's the same thing your card does. instead of letting the player choose, you pick the 7 elements for him.

It only replaces pillars if you want to play the elements it offers. If you don't want to use the combination given you can use quantum towers or nova or Pillars of the combitation you want to use. How is the elements world worse because of this or any of the Artifact quanta producers in the same section as this card?

I wouldn't say it's worse, but like I said, it limits options in deck building, so I think there are better options out there.

If you don't like it I guess you won't vote for it.
Persons who do and want a variety of Quanta Generators should.

The question here is not whether we want variety of quanta generators. Everyone wants those. The question is: do we want this particular card?

I will vote "no" because I want a more balanced quanta generating system for duo-and trio-decks.

[Kael Hate]

If Elements were to have these kinds of cards, I think it would be like this:

Option 1.

2 different cards

each card produces 6 different quanta

Option 2.

3 different cards

each card produces 4 different quanta

Option 3.

4 different cards

each card produces 3 different quanta

I'm thinking how I can improve this card and looking back at this.
If I take option 2 am I not commiting the same sin and forcing you into elements I have picked just as I have with this card as it is?

If I pick for this card and bundle the other 8 elements on 2 other cards in other elements, say a Fire card "Gas Vent" with and a Water card "Crushing depths" that makes have I not caused the same situation and forced you to use combinations within those elemental groupings and even more so because the grouping is so small?

[Scaredgirl]

Well, if you do a card like this, you pretty much have to pick elements, BUT if there's a system and balance, it's ok.

Read this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6452.msg77849#msg77849

That's the same thing I've been trying to tell you.

[MXXE]

Yes, but the problem I'm talking about is that since there won't be these "7-Pillars" for all combinations, you are basically telling the players what "7-Pillar decks" they can and can't do. It's kind of like if Entropy Pillars didn't exist, and everyone were forced to use Novas.

Also this card will never be introduced into the game as an individual card because it requires at least 12 other DIFFERENT cards to go with it. So it's like: "Hey, Zanz here's a great idea of mine. Oh, and if you like it, here's 12 more you have to like too!". See what I'm saying?

This whole thing isn't just a simple alternative for Pillars, it's a HUGE project that would change the core of the game, require ridiculous time of balancing, finding art and coding.

Well about making a huge project that changes the core of the game: I have written quite a BIG much about that. You can find it in the responses to the Quantum-Mechanics-Series-Thread, quite the last post on the first page. Tell me what you think about it.

I think this project would be making elments better as "build your pillar" would be quite fun.
Elements is not that strategic really... My creatures can't atteck his creatures... I make a turn, you make a turn... If I have the quanta I usually just play the card (especially when mono)...

I think you don't win by playing good but rather by having a good deck.

[Kael Hate]

Reworked the card, threw the previous to the aether.

Kept the mechanic people liked.
Had to add some quirks to keep the balance.
Can't think of an abuse yet. If you got one hit me with it.

[MXXE]

Can't think of an abuse yet. If you got one hit me with it.

Fractal'd Spark... But if you're lucky enought to draw fractal, spark and enough aetherpillars you dont have any deathcards to play. So... not an abuse really.

[Kuroaitou]

Reworked the card, threw the previous to the aether.

Kept the mechanic people liked.
Had to add some quirks to keep the balance.
Can't think of an abuse yet. If you got one hit me with it.

DEFINITELY loving this card version - it's much more 'generic' in the sense that it applies to all the elements (random quanta generation upon any creature death), while simultaneously boosting the mono-type if you happen to be facing against non-death creatures.

I imagine that Flooding got a whole lot more devastating with this...