Death Toll | Death Toll

[Kael Hate]

I love the art btw. I feel like there is plethora of card ideas but a dearth of good art.

Why not make it produce quanta based on the mark of the creatures that have died?

I dug for about 30min before I found that photo of a Tomb. A good trickid to look using things similar or related to your target keywords rather than just the direct keywords. Also try looking to sample from a much larger picture the key component you need.

It is plausible that you could link the element gain to the creature element but in testing at this price range (2 ) there was a situation where killing a death creature setup fuel immediately for the next death creature. So you drop a Virus, then next turn you use it and it gives you a Skeleton and a quanta that you can put back into your next death creature that if killed by your opponent gives you back another death quanta to drop into your next death creature. Making it choose from a selection prevented that situation because it was rare to hit death quanta over and over again.

Also I was thinking of coding simplicity here. When a creature dies the code would have to search out that creatures element then apply the appropriate quanta generation to match, also has to work out what to do with Neutrals. With mine, as I presented here you could create 1 function to generate the quanta and just call it at end of turn and when the death trigger occurs.

Thanks for querying it tho.

[Wisemage]

SG wasnt saying those combination of elements as a suggestion.  She was saying them as if they were cards that generated those, she is saying its not balanced since some cards will generate the same quanta which is why it should be separated into 6 2's, 4 3's or 3 4's.

[OldTrees]

I think having a system that determines the 7 elements based on a meta organization of the elements would be a good idea.

using your division of the elements at http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4126.100.html
Spindle 1 - Material Energies - Earth (Solid), Fire (Diffusion the direct connection between solid to gas), Air(Gas), Water (liquid)
Spindle 2 - Transversal Enegies - Life (Coherent Energy), Gravity (Internal Energy), Death (Incoherent Energy), Entropy (External Energy)
Spindle 3 - Logical Energies - Time (defined), Light (positive), Aether (infinite), Darkness (negative).

we could have 4,5,or 9 fairly easily.
4) same spindle
5) lock the spindles orthogonal to each other and include the main element plus the 4 closest other elemnts
example 1: 
example 2: 
9) main element + other spindles

You have a good point about the value of primes. I think that the 5 option would have the best of both.

[Essence]

Umm...'Carnal Reclamation' sounds like a really dirty sex act.  Are you sure that's what you meant it to say?

[Boingo]

Card names in image and table are different.

[Kael Hate]

Umm...'Carnal Reclamation' sounds like a really dirty sex act.  Are you sure that's what you meant it to say?

- Carnal Reclamation means "taking back the flesh"

I pulled the name from the details about this tomb featured in the picture. They treated the bodies and washed away the flesh.

I don't mind changing the name. I originally had "Decomposing Pit | Charnal Pit" which refers to basically a bog for dumping bodies in and a pit for burning bodies in. What do you prefer?

Card names in image and table are different.

Thanks, Fixed. Might change again anyhow tho.

@OldTrees

Still thinking about this but at this time I'm probably going to go with theme over any block balancing. The future generation of any other ideas and related activators will create synergies and imbalances between element relationships just in their existence. I think its best to link the elements to the theme of the card and let the gaps exist naturally rather than create an unnatural card to try and close the gap but have the gap exist anyhow.

[Scaredgirl]

Also have a read of this from my Series Topic.

Section 3 - Artifact Quanta Combinations
These cards are Artifacts unique to the Element in which they are presented and give the user a source of alternate quanta for combining in other element cards or triggering activators on in element cards. These cards will be driven by theme over the need for a particular quanta.

Title

C

P

E

Mechanic

Celestial Sky (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6452.msg73877#msg73877)

2

3

x

x

x

x

Good Quanta production forsaking some other types

Weather Mastery

2

3

x

x

x

x

x

Change Quanta production type

Forest of Shadows (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6556.0.html)

2

3.5

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Opponents use of Quanta increases your gain

Carnal Reclamation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6512.msg75041#msg75041)

2.1

3.15

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Generates extra quanta from creature Death

Terra Cavern (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5892.msg66738#msg66738)

2

3

x

x

x

x

Fixed production with an allowance for an extra type

Pulsar

1

0

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Diffuse Quanta

Caldera

3

3

x

x

x

x

x

Attack damage quanta

Great Luna (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5837.msg66277#msg66277)

2

3

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Swings quanta Quanta with a multiplier up and down

Lotus Blossom (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5313.msg59729#msg59729)

3

3

x

x

x

x

x

Create Creatures that create Quanta

Spectral Prism (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5557.msg62622#msg62622)

1

0

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Transforms Quanta based on cards in hand

Essence Cycle (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5755.msg65360#msg65360)

2

3

x

x

x

x

Cycles Quanta between several types

Dark Water (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5760.msg65402#msg65402)

2

3.5

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

Produces quanta based on even chance

Count

8

5

7

8

7

8

5

5

6

7

5

7

Yes, but the problem I'm talking about is that since there won't be these "7-Pillars" for all combinations, you are basically telling the players what "7-Pillar decks" they can and can't do. It's kind of like if Entropy Pillars didn't exist, and everyone were forced to use Novas.

Also this card will never be introduced into the game as an individual card because it requires at least 12 other DIFFERENT cards to go with it. So it's like: "Hey, Zanz here's a great idea of mine. Oh, and if you like it, here's 12 more you have to like too!". See what I'm saying?

This whole thing isn't just a simple alternative for Pillars, it's a HUGE project that would change the core of the game, require ridiculous time of balancing, finding art and coding.

Art is very nice. For some reason it seems like skulls and bones look cool when transformed into vectors. One thing though.. you might want to edit those bones on the top of the image because they look like male genitalia hanging out

[Avenger]

Also this card will never be introduced into the game as an individual card because it requires at least 12 other DIFFERENT cards to go with it. So it's like: "Hey, Zanz here's a great idea of mine. Oh, and if you like it, here's 12 more you have to like too!". See what I'm saying?

That's not entirely fair, we got the mounts series too. It implies every color deserves their ponies (tigers, whatever). Same as saying: Hey Zanz, here are 13 cards, you implement all or none?

Series are good, but should be handled specially.
I'm just a bit wary of the widely different quanta mechanisms, and can't help the feeling that it is somehow biased towards one or more color. And this has to be said even if Zanz implemented all members of the series at the same time.

It would be much easier for balance (and wouldn't overwhelm the implementor either), if the mechanism is all the same and homogenous. Maybe a bit bland, i admit, but there wouldn't be any concern of balance.

[Scaredgirl]

That's not entirely fair, we got the mounts series too. It implies every color deserves their ponies (tigers, whatever). Same as saying: Hey Zanz, here are 13 cards, you implement all or none?

Yes, but with those series you can use some ideas and skip others. With quanta production, it has to be in balance which means that it's a package deal.

I'm just a bit wary of the widely different quanta mechanisms, and can't help the feeling that it is somehow biased towards one or more color. And this has to be said even if Zanz implemented all members of the series at the same time.

It would be much easier for balance (and wouldn't overwhelm the implementor either), if the mechanism is all the same and homogenous. Maybe a bit bland, i admit, but there wouldn't be any concern of balance.

Yes, this is what I'm saying here. Instead of making quanta production really complicated with all kinds of mathematical formulas, we could simply have:

Mono-Pillar = produces one quanta
Hexa-Pillar = produces 2 random quanta from 6 elements
Quantum Pillar = produces 3 random quanta from all 12 elements
+ each element would have it's own "Nova"

Simple and easy.

[Kael Hate]

Yes, but with those series you can use some ideas and skip others. With quanta production, it has to be in balance which means that it's a package deal.

No it isn't and doesnt need to be.

Series Objective
- A range of cards to bridge the quanta production gap between Mono type and Rainbow type decks. The Cards will work in a generic sense to balance the whole field. They will add access to function for Monotype decks and reliabilty to Rainbow type decks, albiet at a reduction to that deck types strongest function, reliable quanta and card speciality respectively. The biggest gain will be for two to four element deck types. Each card should have a unique mechanic if possible to show the variety of possible applications and directions quanta management can go in. All cards are usable independantly and are balanced in the current environment with only itself.

There is no block requirement of 12 cards and no need for the lot to be all implemented at the same time or if ever. I just did one card in each element as an example relating to that element and as an example of a range of mechanics. There is also no requirement to balance between elements when it comes to quanta production, some cards in some elements are cheaper or more expensive for the same card within another element. Also some elements have access to production outside of the normal circles. Entropy has Nova, Light has Ray of Light, Air has Damselfly, What does Death have? What does Aether Have?

[Scaredgirl]

There is no block requirement of 12 cards and no need for the lot to be all implemented at the same time or if ever. I just did one card in each element as an example relating to that element and as an example of a range of mechanics. There is also no requirement to balance between elements when it comes to quanta production, some cards in some elements are cheaper or more expensive for the same card within another element. Also some elements have access to production outside of the normal circles. Entropy has Nova, Light has Ray of Light, Air has Damselfly, What does Death have? What does Aether Have?

Ray of Light, Damselfly.. those produce only one type of quanta, their own type. Nova produces quanta from all 12 elements. Your card however picks and chooses 7 "random" elements and tells the players: "You can build a deck using these 7 elements but not the other 5".

If a player wanted to build this kind of "7 element deck", he or she has to use the 7 elements provided by you. There is no option to pick and choose those 7 yourself.

There would be this weird imbalance of quanta production cards, which means: Your card idea limits deck building.

[Kael Hate]

There is no block requirement of 12 cards and no need for the lot to be all implemented at the same time or if ever. I just did one card in each element as an example relating to that element and as an example of a range of mechanics. There is also no requirement to balance between elements when it comes to quanta production, some cards in some elements are cheaper or more expensive for the same card within another element. Also some elements have access to production outside of the normal circles. Entropy has Nova, Light has Ray of Light, Air has Damselfly, What does Death have? What does Aether Have?

Ray of Light, Damselfly.. those produce only one type of quanta, their own type. Nova produces quanta from all 12 elements. Your card however picks and chooses 7 "random" elements and tells the players: "You can build a deck using these 7 elements but not the other 5".

If a player wanted to build this kind of "7 element deck", he or she has to use the 7 elements provided by you. There is no option to pick and choose those 7 yourself.

There would be this weird imbalance of quanta production cards, which means: Your card idea limits deck building.

Firefly Produces Light
Elite Firefly produces Fire

Why do you have to use that Combination?

Every Card with an out of element Activator doesn't force you to play those elements over any other combination but gives you a benefit for doing so. These quanta cards give you a benefit fo playing that group of elements. You are not disadvantaged for not playing with this card in this combination. If you believe you are, then you must think that all cards must be identical in all elements just to make it fair.