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Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg534418#msg534418
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 04:35:58 am »
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

Offline AnonymousRevival

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg534522#msg534522
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 12:28:34 pm »
I meant the wave effects due to quantum phenomena.
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg534524#msg534524
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 12:32:41 pm »
Interesting idea, but double targeting seems to be a Nixed idea by Zanz... There are ways around it, but you'll need to be clever.
Just so long as you don't make it a creature.

Offline Atom_heartTopic starter

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg534648#msg534648
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2012, 08:38:06 pm »
Interesting idea, but double targeting seems to be a Nixed idea by Zanz... There are ways around it, but you'll need to be clever.
Just so long as you don't make it a creature.

I still don't know if the double targeting problem is fixed with the change I made or not... I believe the problem is with manual double targeting, right?

PS: I really like your avatar, lol

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg536927#msg536927
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 05:31:33 am »
CURATOR COMMENT

This card will not be permitted into the Crucible due to one or more of the following errors:

  • Table filled out incorrectly.

Correct these errors as soon as possible and feel free to submit again when ready.

Thank you. ^_^


Please make sure the text on the card image and the text in the table match.
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Offline Atom_heartTopic starter

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537002#msg537002
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 12:51:51 pm »
CURATOR COMMENT

This card will not be permitted into the Crucible due to one or more of the following errors:

  • Table filled out incorrectly.

Correct these errors as soon as possible and feel free to submit again when ready.

Thank you. ^_^


Please make sure the text on the card image and the text in the table match.

Oops!
Fixed! Thank you very much.

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537067#msg537067
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2012, 05:27:12 pm »
Just thought of some things...
1) If I cast PU on an entangled creature, does that mean I get copies of all the others as well?

2) If I target a :time creature with SoR but it is entangled with other non-time creatures, do the others also get the double skill use per turn effect?

3) Will sky blitz affect entangled creatures multiple times? What about mass CC?
e.g. if 3 creatures are entangled and i cast plague, would they end up with 3 poison counters each or just 1?

4) If I use gravity pull on a bunch of entangled creatures, who gets the pull (it can only be on 1 creature per side)?
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Offline Atom_heartTopic starter

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537148#msg537148
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 12:13:08 am »
Just thought of some things...
1) If I cast PU on an entangled creature, does that mean I get copies of all the others as well?

2) If I target a :time creature with SoR but it is entangled with other non-time creatures, do the others also get the double skill use per turn effect?

3) Will sky blitz affect entangled creatures multiple times? What about mass CC?
e.g. if 3 creatures are entangled and i cast plague, would they end up with 3 poison counters each or just 1?

4) If I use gravity pull on a bunch of entangled creatures, who gets the pull (it can only be on 1 creature per side)?

Before answering your questions I want to make a comment. Entanglement works between two creatures only, there is no way to "chain entangle". If you use the spell more than once, it entangles two other random creatures - you get pairs. If there's only one unentangled creature left, the spell does nothing (the upped version only counts enemy creatures, of course).

1) In this case, no. You should only get the copy of the single creature you targeted.

2) It would be nice if both creatures were on your side! But no, IMO this shouldn't happen... the other creature just gets the 0 cost buff. The double use is a  :time attribute, and it should stay like that.

3) Yes, this is a key point of Entanglement. You do get double hits in AoE. But remember that entanglement works in pairs, so you get 2 poison counters, or 4x damage on the creatures of each pair.

4) Good point. If the creatures are on the same side, it goes to the creature that was targeted in the first place. If they are on opposite sides, both of them.

Great questions! Thanks for your time. Should I clarify these points on the card info?

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537225#msg537225
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 06:02:45 am »
Cool.. just clearing it up... I'm a little concerned about abuse with Sky Blitz and SoFr
Other than that it seems like a good deal.

... Of course those two are pretty ugly... consider:

At maximum you could get x2x2x1.5x1.5=potential 9x damage on a pair (if SoFr triggers on both)...

serious OTK pwnage there...

If the have and use dive that could go up to either x18 or even x36 on the pair (depending on if dive procs on both when used on one).

So for a pair of entangled wyrms, you would get 2 x3 x36 = 216 damage in a single turn with SoFr and Blitz plus double dive.

This takes 5 cards, and 2 rounds ... but the otk part really only takes 3 since a pair of wyrms, while annoying, generally isn't that conspicuous.

I love a good FG hunter and all, but that could cause some serious issues with metagame
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
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Offline Atom_heartTopic starter

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537337#msg537337
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 09:00:54 pm »
Cool.. just clearing it up... I'm a little concerned about abuse with Sky Blitz and SoFr
Other than that it seems like a good deal.

... Of course those two are pretty ugly... consider:

At maximum you could get x2x2x1.5x1.5=potential 9x damage on a pair (if SoFr triggers on both)...

serious OTK pwnage there...

If the have and use dive that could go up to either x18 or even x36 on the pair (depending on if dive procs on both when used on one).

So for a pair of entangled wyrms, you would get 2 x3 x36 = 216 damage in a single turn with SoFr and Blitz plus double dive.

This takes 5 cards, and 2 rounds ... but the otk part really only takes 3 since a pair of wyrms, while annoying, generally isn't that conspicuous.

I love a good FG hunter and all, but that could cause some serious issues with metagame

I see what you mean.

There is a way to reduce this risk, but it would also mean an overall nerf to the card. This would be:
Triggered effects that automatically affect the creature using them dont't proc for the other entangled creature. This would cut out Dive, Scavenger, Lycanthropy, Armagios' GP, Ablaze, Devour, Burrow, Evolve, Growth, Divine shield, Steam, Hatch, Deja Vu, Stone Form, and maybe some more I forgot (With Plague the auto-effect avoided by the other creature is death, but the poison counter should still affect it if it's on the opposite side).
In other words, if something is triggered by an entangled creature, it only affects both if one of the two is targeted. For example, a Fire Nymph using Rage on itself or on the other creature, (Endow would work too, because targeting is involved).
This might not be a very elegant solution, but it could reduce the 216 damage to 108 max (for upgraded wyrms it reaches 180 though).

On a side note, the massive damage would only happen if the SoFr triggers on both... There's a probability of about 6,3 % that this happens (1 out of 16 times), a 37,5 % chance of doing 72 damage (120 for upped) and 56,5 % of doing 48 (80 upped).
This softens the punishment a bit, though it still is something to fear. Besides, doing it 2 times in a row would not be easy (you need another Sky blitz and at least 12  :air in the next turn). And let's not forget that you have to make sure that the entanglement is made between your two air diving creatures. If there are other creatures in either field, your chances of pulling out the combo drop even more.

I'd like to hear more opinions. Does this tactic make the card OP? Is the suggested modification too big of a nerf? Is the card OK as it is?
Thanks!

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Entanglement | Entanglement https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42723.msg537344#msg537344
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 09:24:33 pm »
I just realized that this same issue came up before... and also sparked similar debates. The card is in crucible right now actually:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36953

Its different enough that I didn't remember it at first, but the main problem (sky blitz and dive stacking) is the same.

Maybe looking over the discussion there will give some added insight.

Other than blitz and dive abuse I really do love the concept. The artwork is pretty good to by the way.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

 

blarg: