Betrayal | Betrayal

[bucky1andonly]

stealing does not mean kill or destroy, its the transfer of ownership or control, so when a creature would be stolen, no death effects or end of the turn effects would be triggered. 

antimatter is a good comparison to a card that steals a creature.

antimatter
-negates the damage the creature does totally
-heals the opponent
-if a 2nd same creature is in play, the player is no longer healed, but 2 creatures now deal effectively 0 damage, one negating the other

that is only one card, just one which can nullify the damage done by 2 creatures.  so the idea of stealing a creature completely is not over powered at all, IT IS NOT CONSIDERED KILLING EITHER, and a stolen creature can be stolen back, just like an antimattered creature can be antimattered again.

if it works for other games, theres no reason why it wouldnt work here, we need new abilities and crap, and since a discard pile will never happen (even though that opens up a lot of new abilities and effects/spells), every other feasible ability/skill/spell has to be at least attempted, the card could be made and if it is too game breaking, it could be removed.  it just needs a high cost like fractal, and the quanta drained, like fractal.

[OldTrees]

stealing does not mean kill or destroy, its the transfer of ownership or control, so when a creature would be stolen, no death effects or end of the turn effects would be triggered. 

antimatter is a good comparison to a card that steals a creature.

antimatter
-negates the damage the creature does totally
-heals the opponent
-if a 2nd same creature is in play, the player is no longer healed, but 2 creatures now deal effectively 0 damage, one negating the other

that is only one card, just one which can nullify the damage done by 2 creatures.  so the idea of stealing a creature completely is not over powered at all, IT IS NOT CONSIDERED KILLING EITHER, and a stolen creature can be stolen back, just like an antimattered creature can be antimattered again.

if it works for other games, theres no reason why it wouldnt work here, we need new abilities and crap, and since a discard pile will never happen (even though that opens up a lot of new abilities and effects/spells), every other feasible ability/skill/spell has to be at least attempted, the card could be made and if it is too game breaking, it could be removed.  it just needs a high cost like fractal, and the quanta drained, like fractal.

The antimatter analogy forgets that the stolen creature cannot be sacrificed by the original owner, have its skill used by the original owner, and the new owner get both.

I agree that Stealing a Creature is not permanent removal of that creature.

Now that you are on the same page, please help us calculate a balanced cost for reversible unqualified removal of Damage,Skills and Sacrifice resources.

Insta-kill, or at least 1 card doing it, is strictly tabooed by Zanz.

If we had a single insta-kill card, then that and this could be compared to Deflag and Steal.

Yes non reversible targeted instant kill is disliked by Zanz. However determining a balanced theoretical cost for such an effect would permit calculating the balanced cost of Stealing a creature. As bucky1andonly points out, Zanz is fine with reversible effects.

[bucky1andonly]

I had mentioned a cost earlier, increase the unupped cost to 8, upped to 7, and it also drains all of the remaining darkness quanta.  Also, there would not be a +2/+2 bonus, that is too much.  Aether has fractal, Light has miracle, Darkness could have this.

Or, the cost could be to sacrifice a creature to steal target creature, that would be a good cost all on its own. 

[n00b]

I like this idea... like you said, a steal except with creatures. And for that, you have been awarded the rare gift of my seal of approval! Play on and keep up the good work!

[CCCombobreaker]

I like Bucky's idea of sac a creature to steal a creature, but maybe keep a cost of 2 (1 upped) so it can't be run in ANY deck.  That makes it 2 cards for 1 card, which I think balances out the possibility of highly favorable theft and discourages it's use as merely a cc (even if it is reversible).  It also adds another instant deat effect to the game (saccing the creature) and we need more of those (unless they buff Schroedy's cat).

[OldTrees]

Sacking a creature would be a good alternate cost to reduce the quanta casting cost. However I think we will still need a quanta casting cost.

Sacking a creature could be described as a component for possession of the stolen creature.

For now I think a Casting Cost of 11 |10 , 10 |9 and drain all  , or 7 |6 and sacrifice an allied creature.

[MyNameIsJoey]

Don't you think 7 |6 is a lot if you are sacrificing too?  i  would think maybe of 6 |4 no?

[OldTrees]

I assumed that you would sacrifice a cheap (free) creature. A 4 quanta reduction seemed fair.

[MyNameIsJoey]

hmm, Alright, ill make these changes whenever i have the time.. which risks to be in a while, but whatever lol

[MyNameIsJoey]

Edits done, and sent for crucible candidate.