Betrayal | Betrayal

[karis]

the problem is.  if you use TU, your opponent still have a chance to kill you before. but if you steal it.  he can't. 

what about poisoned target creature then steal it?  it's will be funny if the betrayer one have some bad feeling then suicide. 

for me,  poisoned by target cost is great.   

[Dwerg]

making it have vampire ability would be equal to use AM LS on it with the boost it'd wouldn't die.

The concept is cool altho I think it would need either:
- Higher cost
- Add the concept of loyalty as a passive skill(for example, light creatures would be immune to betrayal)
Maybe:
- The creature would be put in the exact same slot as it was on the opponent's field, killing any creature that was there before
- The creature that betrayed would have a passive skill called "Guilt" that'd slowly kill it and or have some other nerfing effect

[Mithcairion]

Well, as a former team member I can tell you just how great it would be to have some form of "instant" CC.  The only problem I could see with this is the cost.  While I agree that it should have a higher cost due to what it does, I would rather see the cost reduced in the upped form than a bonus given to the creature stolen.

If i make the unupped cost 8 and the upped i remove hte bonus, would it be ok or it needs a higher cost than this?

NOT that I'm OldTrees or anything, but if we compare this and PU/TU to Steal/Deflagration, Deflag is 2/1 and destroys the permanent, whereas Steal is 4/3 and you *cough* steal it.  By the same token, PU/TU is 7/6 and makes a copy.  By this logic, I'm thinking it should be in the neighborhood of 9 unupped and 8 upped, although I think you may be able to apply the bonus to both in that case.  Either way, this card is definitely a tide turning one.

[bucky1andonly]

Basically a version of TU that also insta-kill CCs? 

dont think of stealing as killing, but yes it is OP

cheaper than PU and more powerful than TU, when unupped and upped respectively.
if the cost were like fractal, maybe 9 unupped and 8 upped, and you lose all the rest of your dark quanta, this would be viable

[OldTrees]

The oft repeated "Steal Creature" idea:
--->removes the damage per turn you would suffer
--->removes all skills from that slot [Lobotomize AND remove passives]
--->removes the creature they could sacrifice (Immolation, Catapult) or teach (Butterfly Effect)
--->Copies the creature onto your side of the field [Twin Universe 7 +1card] (Stats, Skills & Sacrifice)
--->Still does not activate death triggers

Twin Universe (7 +1card)
--->Copies the creature onto your side of the field [Twin Universe 7 +1card] (Stats, Skills & Sacrifice)
--->Still does not activate death triggers

Therefore "Steal Creature" is worth Twin Universe + Instant lethal CC against any mortal but does not activate death triggers.
Therefore "Steal Creature" is worth 7 |6 +1 card + Instant lethal CC against any mortal but does not activate death triggers.

Spark is 3 damage + a death trigger and can be buffed to survive longer. Therefore a death trigger is worth less than 0quanta + 1card.

Therefore "Steal Creature" is worth barely more than Twin Universe + Instant lethal CC against any mortal - Spark.
Therefore "Steal Creature" is worth barely more than 7 |6 +0cards + Instant lethal CC against any mortal.

How much is Instant lethal CC against any mortal worth?

If Instant lethal CC against any mortal is worth Xquanta+1card then Steal Creature is worth barely more than X+7 |X+6 +1card.

[MyNameIsJoey]

though with PU you can copy your own buffed creature, with this steal idea you need your opponent to play a big creature for it to be worth it.

[OldTrees]

though with PU you can copy your own buffed creature, with this steal idea you need your opponent to play a bigvaluable creature for it to be worth it.

The same is true for Instant lethal CC against any mortal.

I must be clear: I am not against or for this idea. I find the "Steal Creature" idea to be a puzzle that I do not feel skilled enough to solve (due to the yellow effect). I have a few puzzles like this that I reward +rep to the first attempt that I think succeeds at being balanced.

[MyNameIsJoey]

hmm

but that cant just be removed like that, else the card is just a darkness PU -.-

considering an instant killed is made by using freeze (1 quanta) + shockwave (2 quantas but of another element) Would adding 4 quantas to the cost of PU make it balanced?

[OldTrees]

hmm

but that cant just be removed like that, else the card is just a darkness PU -.-

considering an instant killed is made by using freeze (1 quanta) + shockwave (2 quantas but of another element) Would adding 4 quantas to the cost of PU make it balanced?

That (cost of freeze + shockwave = 1 + 1 + 2 cards ~= 3 +2 cards) would be a good starting point.
However would a 4quanta spell that worked as an instant kill be balanced?

[MyNameIsJoey]

Maxwell demon instant kills for less than that.

Also, on an approximate counting, id say about 45/60 of the creatures in the game that can be targeted with a spell would die from a lightning (if the lightning is played on the turn after, without any buffs or quint, ofcourse)

if we are talking of buffed creatures, reverse time kills it.

And if you are so scared of your creature Betraying you, you can always quint it.

[Xenocidius]

Insta-kill, or at least 1 card doing it, is strictly tabooed by Zanz.

If we had a single insta-kill card, then that and this could be compared to Deflag and Steal.

[karis]

even if Oldtrees already reply in this topic.  but Mithcairion 'oldtrees' part still make me lol