Apocalypse | Apocalypse

[Nepycros]

Why would we use this card if it meant that we'd get less benefits than the opponent? Noone would play Apocalypse just because they can. They'd wait till they got max benefit. It clearly hurts the opponent more, especially if you black hole any quanta they have left. Remember, duos are a pain to deal with.

[BluePriest]

It's a pain because there's really nothing there to feasibly counter it.

If you run into it unprepared, you will basically automatically lose.
That means every single deck you make has to be prepared for it one way or another, or you will lose.
Since you have to include it as a factor in every single deck you make, it's an incredibly broken card.

Really... give me an example. How will you lose as soon as this card is played. Tell me.

Why would we use this card if it meant that we'd get less benefits than the opponent? Noone would play Apocalypse just because they can. They'd wait till they got max benefit. It clearly hurts the opponent more, especially if you black hole any quanta they have left. Remember, duos are a pain to deal with.

Really? What about if you are facing a mono deck? Or a duo deck? Black hole is pointless against those (unless they depend on the mark)

[OldTrees]

Blue Priest. You are much better at estimating details of the game than I.

If you had this card (cost N ), when would you use it and what on average would be the cost to your side?

[BluePriest]

Its honestly hard to tell.  Every time I try to think of a game situation where it would be game changing, I cant find myself at a good enough advantage. For example, just go to the trainer and build a deck around this card. Choose a card to represent this one. Go through a few battles, and find a place to use this card. Take into account that you wouldnt have any fire quanta after you use this card, and no pillars. It makes it hard to actually find a good use for this card...

[Nepycros]

I still want to know what happens when countered with something that has Protect Artifact. The fact is, it can't be destroyed unless it had a time limit on it, so I'll assume it can't be destroyed.

[EvaRia]

The key thing is that you are unprepared for it.

If you use this card, you are designing a specific strategy around it.
You're not just throwing it into a deck.

This means that you can use it flexibly enough to counter anything your opponent throws at you.

Consider Phoenix/Cremation.

Phoenixes have the ability to revive after they are killed, so you can just revive them afterwards.
Cremation gives you the ability to gain quanta even if all your pillars were destroyed.

This gives you a significant strategy to beat your opponent with.

Also, this is a card which has a great amount of power end game.

The idea is to set up everything, and just when they are about to win or gain a large advantage over you, you can use this to gain it back.

[Uppercut]

A mid-rangey rainbow thing with Snovas seems optimal. You'd blow up the board and drop a few guys in one turn.  If you're going against aggro they've probably lost too much to recover unless they held back waiting for it and then you win anyway because your creatures are simply better. Against a control decks you'd bank on having super efficient guys with good abilities with a reset button if you need it, though it'd be hard to recover if you tried to aggro them and still had to blow up the board.

[BluePriest]

The key thing is that you are unprepared for it.

If you use this card, you are designing a specific strategy around it.
You're not just throwing it into a deck.

This means that you can use it flexibly enough to counter anything your opponent throws at you.

Consider Phoenix/Cremation.

Phoenixes have the ability to revive after they are killed, so you can just revive them afterwards.
Cremation gives you the ability to gain quanta even if all your pillars were destroyed.

This gives you a significant strategy to beat your opponent with.

Also, this is a card which has a great amount of power end game.

The idea is to set up everything, and just when they are about to win or gain a large advantage over you, you can use this to gain it back.

Give me an example with THIS card. Build a deck and use the ? ? ? to represent this card. Lets see how OP it would really be.

[OldTrees]

A spell based deck would also make some sense.
Their quanta is partially wasted because you destroy their permanents and creatures
Your quanta is used efficiently to damage the opponent and heal yourself (Poison,Drain Life,Heal).

You will still end up a turn behind on quanta though.

(http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?mark=4so&deck=z25f55f6z65fcz65omz95puz35puz3???)
Disclaimer: I am terrible at deck design.
Concept: Use Fire Shield and Deflag as control hoping to be able to cast an Apocalypse to halt the progress of the game to allow a leisurely stall for UG OTK.
Phoenix serve as decoys and secondary win condition. Deception in chat would help this deck a lot.

[qetuol]

Please note "destroy" means a complete destroy not just kill. So phoenix wont turn ashes after playing this card but completely destroyed. (its Apocalypse, not just RoF, right?), also destroys all the permanents (incl. protected) and immaterials, invisible, buried... EVERYTHING

[OldTrees]

Please note "destroy" means a complete destroy not just kill. So phoenix wont turn ashes after playing this card but completely destroyed. (its Apocalypse, not just RoF, right?), also destroys all the permanents (incl. protected) and immaterials, invisible, buried... EVERYTHING

Oh. If we are talking about a two edged non targeting mass bury effect then I am afraid that it is hard to balance considering it is new in so many ways.

In that case only play-testing would determine strength.
Fire Mark
6x Sundials
6x Unstable Gas
3x Owl's Eye
15x Air Pendulums

[Nepycros]

Then this card contradicts the direct wording of another card. Isn't that invalid?