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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: EmeraldTiger on February 22, 2012, 12:27:23 am

Title: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 22, 2012, 12:27:23 am
(http://i.imgur.com/35rdX.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/1oXUC.png)
NAME:
Amethyst Mace
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
4|4 when flying
TEXT:
Deal 4 damage at the end of every turn.  :entropy Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.
NAME:
Amethyst Scepter
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
6|4 when flying
TEXT:
Deal 6 damage at the end of every turn. :entropy Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.
ART:
EmeraldTiger
IDEA:
EmeraldTiger
NOTES:
30% for Entropy.
6.36% for Each other element.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: AnimationX on February 22, 2012, 12:32:32 am
So basically it can change the type of quanta used for creature skills? Me likey.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 22, 2012, 12:33:37 am
Yes.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 12:43:35 am
so essentially a soft lobo for entropy/light, not a very common combo, so more likely a rainbow
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 22, 2012, 12:47:44 am
Quote from: moomoose on February 22, 2012, 12:43:35 am
so essentially a soft lobo for entropy/light, not a very common combo, so more likely a rainbow
Very likely to end up in Rainbows more due to the lower costs too...
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 22, 2012, 01:52:17 am
Are there any adjustments needed?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: kimham8a on February 22, 2012, 02:40:42 am
Honestly, I think this would have been a great idea before, but now with so much CC and so many rainbows anyway I think it's not a needed card right now. Fits the element though. But why light for skill?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 22, 2012, 02:41:58 am
Think of how prisms refract light.  The connection should become apparent.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 02:53:29 am
Deck With this
unupped
:lightmark

6 Photons
4 Crusaders
3 Solar Shields
4 Blessings
3 Entropy Pillars
8 Entropy Pendulums
3 Amethyst Maces
4 Fallen Elves
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: AnimationX on February 24, 2012, 02:54:51 am
Interesting. I was thinking of mutations too.
It's a card that ties  :entropy/ :light, since I almost never see those cards in a duo.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 03:01:27 am
et- in your proposed deck would the fallen elves even be able to function?

along those lines, a more interesting mechanic may be to set the ability cost to either a set element or to that of the targets element, sort of a repeatable but less effective shard of readiness.  not sure of what theme would fit though.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 03:29:18 am
ok i will test that deck
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 04:16:35 am
do you intend on using the weapon skill on the fallen elves? in a quo, there is a 1/6 chance that you will get :light or :entropy and make the fallen elf's skill usable
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 04:19:31 am
 Care to visit the testing ground? http://sync.in/CardIdeaBattlefield1
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 04:23:56 am
itd be quicker to simply explain the reasoning for putting an :entropy :life creature in an :entropy :light deck
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 04:26:55 am
Like u said I will attempt to change the :life to :light or :entropy.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 04:40:47 am
considering on average it would take 6 turns/uses to get one of the two quanta types for any given elf, i dont see it as being viable at all
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 04:42:18 am
Quote from: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 04:40:47 am
considering on average it would take 6 turns/uses to get one of the two quanta types for any given elf, i dont see it as being viable at all
Dont Forget the crusaders
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 24, 2012, 04:43:09 am
And isn't that the beauty of :entropy ?  The randmomness?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 01:55:36 pm
even if the crusaders give extra attempts, thats a ton of quanta dumped into just trying to get fallen elves to be able to function.  1) cost of weapon 2) cost of crusaders 3) time from summoning delay (at least 1 turn, more if crusaders are not played the same turn as the weapon) 4) cost of crusader using ability on weapon 5) cost of using the weapon ability.  i have to head to work, adding that up should give insight into if it is a viable application of the weapon (im sure its not), at the end, get a d12 or d6 and roll it, seeing how many times you get 11s/12s or 6s, respectively, to test the number of times and the amount of quanta wasted to get a usable result
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 24, 2012, 04:57:54 pm
I personally still see it more as a :entropy / :light lobo and maybe a quantum-fixer in rainbows. However, given that it deals less damage than lobo in both forms and it's potential CC is weaker than Lobo and requires a duo, I'd say this card is currently UP.

Using Card Cost Theory:
Weapon Cost = Attack + HP Modifier + Ability Modifier - Weapon Slot + Bonuses
Unupped:
Attack = +2
HP = +0 (1-5)
Ability Modifier = +1 (Assuming this has the same danger value as Lobo, though this utility decreases greatly against rainbows.) +1 ( :underworld cost ) -1 (duo cost skill) = +1 Total
Weapon Slot = -3
Bonuses = None
Final Cost : 0 :entropy
Upgraded adds two attack, but that would be compensated for by the logical upgrade, which would still make this weapon cost 0 :entropy upgraded.

While this is acceptable, it doesn't really make sense as a weapon - most 0 cost-cards seem to mess with the natural mulligan that attempts to give you cards such as pillars, immolation, and novas in your hand, and given that this is a magical scepter that can scramble abilities I would consider this being worth more than your average Hammer or Short Sword. (EDIT : And thanks moo, it really isn't a duo anymore if it costed 0. XD)

My suggestion : Increase damage of both versions by 2, and lower cost of the unupgraded version to 2 :entropy .
Regardless of buffing, it doesn't seem as reliable as a straightfoward Lobo given it's effect and it's quantum fixing ability is potentially negligible if you don't use enough types of quantum.

Quote from: OldTrees on April 21, 2011, 02:07:28 am
There is a balance that should be struck between too situational (old purify) and too versatile (old Sundial). My guideline for a minimum is 3 strategies. (for a max I use <50% of decks)
Could you give me 3 viable strategies for this card if it was implemented in Elements the Game?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 05:14:15 pm
heh, a 0 cost weapon ceases to be a duo, regardless of what element you stick it in :)

like i said, i think setting it to make the quanta costing a set element (either :entropy or :light, for example, making it a buff for you and a potential lobo for the opponent if they are without the particular element chosen) or to the element of the card (if it is less desired to be a psuedo lobo and more desired to be a buff) would make the weapon more usable than its current form.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 06:13:45 pm
Current
Name: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Element: Entropy
Cost: 3|2
Type: Permanent (Weapon)
Atk|HP:2|4-4|4
Ability: :Weapon: Deal 2|4 damage at the end of every turn. :light Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.

Updated
Name: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Element: Entropy
Cost: 2|2
Type: Permanent (Weapon)
Atk|HP:4|4-6|4
Ability: Weapon: Deal 4|6 damage at the end of every turn. :entropy Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.

Is the updated the way to go?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: OldTrees on February 24, 2012, 07:54:39 pm
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 06:13:45 pm
Current
Name: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Element: Entropy
Cost: 3|2
Type: Permanent (Weapon)
Atk|HP:2|4-4|4
Ability: :Weapon: Deal 2|4 damage at the end of every turn. :light Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.

Updated
Name: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Element: Entropy
Cost: 2|2
Type: Permanent (Weapon)
Atk|HP:4|4-6|4
Ability: Weapon: Deal 4|6 damage at the end of every turn. :entropy Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.

Is the updated the way to go?
The updated is no longer a duo. A 3|3 cost or 3|5 attack is balanced.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 24, 2012, 07:57:43 pm
Quote
Is the updated the way to go?
Quote
:entropy Kaleidoscope: Target creature skill becomes a random element.
It's still a rather unreliable lobo that effect diminishes greatly against rainbows. I believe moomoose's suggestion is much better, IMHO, but go with what you think is right...
Quote from: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 05:14:15 pm
like i said, i think setting it to make the quanta costing a set element (either :entropy or :light, for example, making it a buff for you and a potential lobo for the opponent if they are without the particular element chosen) or to the element of the card (if it is less desired to be a psuedo lobo and more desired to be a buff) would make the weapon more usable than its current form.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: OldTrees on February 24, 2012, 08:10:45 pm
Moomooses suggestion orderes the chaos which would change the default element from  :entropy to  :gravity.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on February 24, 2012, 09:33:40 pm
updated
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 11:13:44 pm
OT:if entropy is chaos, isnt setting something to entropy chaotic thamtically anyway, or are all :entropy costing cards ordered, meaning all entropy cards should cost gravity?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: OldTrees on February 25, 2012, 08:19:41 am
Quote from: moomoose on February 24, 2012, 11:13:44 pm
OT:if entropy is chaos, isnt setting something to entropy chaotic thamtically anyway, or are all :entropy costing cards ordered, meaning all entropy cards should cost gravity?
Entropy is entropy. Chaos is a subset usually.
Setting something to a set element is reducing the number of elements used for activated abilities. This reduces entropy thus creating order.

1 to many is entropy. Many to 1 is order hence gravity.

So  :rainbow ->  :entropy would be ordering quanta but  :rainbow ->  :gravity would fit the resulting theme of order better through reinforcement.

Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: moomoose on February 25, 2012, 06:55:18 pm
like i said, all cards in the entropy element cost :entropy, that is ordered, should they instead cost :gravity because they are not random costs?  should any time a card changes the cost of another be required to set it to gravity, and nothing else, unless it is completely random, or no, quanta? 

with this card, entropy is relevant, it is the element of change, so changing something to the element of change makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: OldTrees on February 25, 2012, 07:19:40 pm
Quote from: moomoose on February 25, 2012, 06:55:18 pm
like i said, all cards in the entropy element cost :entropy, that is ordered, should they instead cost :gravity because they are not random costs?  should any time a card changes the cost of another be required to set it to gravity, and nothing else, unless it is completely random, or no, quanta? 

with this card, entropy is relevant, it is the element of change, so changing something to the element of change makes sense to me.
You are misreading what I have claimed.
Chaos Seed can create multiple possible outcomes from 1 starting point. (1 to many is Entropy)
Nova can create distributed quanta from 1 card (1 to many is Entropy)
Discord scrambles the opponent's quanta (1 to many is Entropy)
Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter changes all activation costs, 1 by 1, from their respective elements to a set element (many to 1 is Gravity)

If the card set the activation cost to the user's mark that too would be reducing entropy and thus fit a Gravity casting cost.
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Cunning_Wish on April 25, 2012, 10:50:31 am
I like this
I think maybe the ability change to :Target creature skill becomes a random one.(but element cost is same as the creature)
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on April 26, 2012, 12:52:15 pm
What if i made have Higher chance to become :entropy and a small chance to become  :rainbow but everything else is also a possibility

Would it be too powerful if it also made cost range 1-4?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Gemini on April 28, 2012, 01:19:12 am
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on April 26, 2012, 12:52:15 pm
What if i made have Higher chance to become :entropy and a small chance to become  :rainbow but everything else is also a possibility

Would it be too powerful if it also made cost range 1-4?
I think it would balance it out from 1-3, 4 being a bit overkill. I like the mechanic though, specially with Entropy as higher chance, I can see its uses in WAR mostly, when bows are not constantly around. also I enjoyed the art :)
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: EmeraldTiger on April 28, 2012, 03:22:33 am
I not sure what %'s would be good, any suggestions?
Title: Re: Amethyst Mace | Amethyst Scepter
Post by: Gemini on April 28, 2012, 06:00:48 pm
Quote from: EmeraldTiger on April 28, 2012, 03:22:33 am
I not sure what %'s would be good, any suggestions?
30% for Entropy.
6.36% for Each other element.
I dont know why, I think it should be around that range, basically 5 times higher chance of it being Entropy than any other element.
blarg: