Competition: Battle of the Opposing Elements! (Masters only)

[tyranim]

ty 

[Essence]

if we allow people to take pillars from other elements, it's going to look way too much like a duo-deck.

What?  A duo-deck looks like a duo-deck because it plays cards of different colors.  A deck that is 100% Life cards but uses Water pillars to power Spectres doesn't look anything at all like a duo-deck.

By the same token, an Entropy deck that uses 100% Entropy pillars but uses a Life mark and a Fallen Druid to create a bunch of mutants looks like a rainbow deck -- BUT we all know that effectively all mutants are Entropy cards, no matter what they look like.

No one would be the slightest bit upset if JMizzle plays a bunch of Mutants, because looks don't mean sh!t.

I personally don't see any of the elements having a huge disadvantage. I'm 100% sure that any element can beat any other elements with the combination of good deck and good strategy (and a bit of luck).

The same is also true if you allow us to use Animate Weapon.  You're all upset about how allowing Animate Weapon would step on unit748596's toes -- but your own rules are cutting ME off from one of MY favorite in-element cards and it's attached tactics because of some non-mechanical aesthetic that is already defied by the existence of mutants.

I call shenanigans.

And allowing pillars would give you a huge advantage, as you've shown elsewhere.
You can still use quantum pillars.

It's not a huge advantage.  All kinds of Nymph-based decks have been tested and none have proven overwhelmingly powerful.  I posted one mono-water Nymph deck that can beat AI5 -- because AI5 is unfocused, slow, and has no determined strategy.  Even then, it loses to any AI5 with creature control. 

Besides, any reasonable perspective that acknowledges that Mutants are all effectively Entropy cards MUST also acknowledge that Nymphs are ALL effectively Water cards, despite their appearance, by exactly the same logic.   The fact that they can be won from the Oracle as ultrarares is cool, but irrelevant to the core game mechanic, which is that you MUST play Water in order to play Nymphs -- and these rules are forcing me to play without them.


I'd be fine with that if you're willing to stipulate that NONE of the players are allowed to use their element's Alchemy cards.  But you can't take mine away from me with some inane aesthetic-oriented deck construction rule and even start to claim that this is a fair tournament.

[Kamietsu]

if we allow people to take pillars from other elements, it's going to look way too much like a duo-deck.

What?  A duo-deck looks like a duo-deck because it plays cards of different colors.  A deck that is 100% Life cards but uses Water pillars to power Spectres doesn't look anything at all like a duo-deck.

By the same token, an Entropy deck that uses 100% Entropy pillars but uses a Life mark and a Fallen Druid to create a bunch of mutants looks like a rainbow deck -- BUT we all know that effectively all mutants are Entropy cards, no matter what they look like.

No one would be the slightest bit upset if JMizzle plays a bunch of Mutants, because looks don't mean sh!t.

I personally don't see any of the elements having a huge disadvantage. I'm 100% sure that any element can beat any other elements with the combination of good deck and good strategy (and a bit of luck).

The same is also true if you allow us to use Animate Weapon.  You're all upset about how allowing Animate Weapon would step on unit748596's toes -- but your own rules are cutting ME off from one of MY favorite in-element cards and it's attached tactics because of some non-mechanical aesthetic that is already defied by the existence of mutants.

I call shenanigans.

And allowing pillars would give you a huge advantage, as you've shown elsewhere.
You can still use quantum pillars.

It's not a huge advantage.  All kinds of Nymph-based decks have been tested and none have proven overwhelmingly powerful.  I posted one mono-water Nymph deck that can beat AI5 -- because AI5 is unfocused, slow, and has no determined strategy.  Even then, it loses to any AI5 with creature control. 

Besides, any reasonable perspective that acknowledges that Mutants are all effectively Entropy cards MUST also acknowledge that Nymphs are ALL effectively Water cards, despite their appearance, by exactly the same logic.   The fact that they can be won from the Oracle as ultrarares is cool, but irrelevant to the core game mechanic, which is that you MUST play Water in order to play Nymphs -- and these rules are forcing me to play without them.


I'd be fine with that if you're willing to stipulate that NONE of the players are allowed to use their element's Alchemy cards.  But you can't take mine away from me with some inane aesthetic-oriented deck construction rule and even start to claim that this is a fair tournament.

I don't even know what you are trying to argue anymore to be able to have some kind of response. I still do not see the problem, at all, with the mono deck definition being able to use only cards from your own element and the "other" cards. What's the big deal? Each deck has it's advantages and disadvantages and depending on how one plays, those disadvantages could be decreased.

[Scaredgirl]

No one would be the slightest bit upset if JMizzle plays a bunch of Mutants, because looks don't mean sh!t.

Jmizzle7 is the Master of Entropy so why on earth (no pun intended) would anyone be upset if he plays an Entropy card?

Here's the deal:

You are a Master of a specific element, and being a master of that element, you only use cards from that specific element.

How could it be more clear or logical than that?

[tyranim]

sorry, i have a tendency OVER thinking things. i was told many times to check with a psychiatrist to make sure it isn't a medical issue...

[Essence]

You are a Master of a specific element, and being a master of that element, you only use cards from that specific element.

How could it be more clear or logical than that?

/me slaps himself in the forehead.


Scaredgirl, acknowledge this point:

Water contains an Alchemy card that REQUIRES pillars of other types to have any appreciable effect.

By denying the use of off-color pillars, you are denying me -- and ONLY me -- the use of my element's Alchemy card, which is equivalent in effect to denying JMizzle the use of Antimatter because you don't like the way it makes his deck look.

That's straight bullsh!t. 

We agreed on a definition of mono-decks, and you're changing it on us at the brink of an important event based on a knee-jerk decision with no thought given to how fair it is to the players.   Of course, the other Masters are going to go along with you, because I'm literally the only one that REALLY loses out from this rule.


That's even bullsh!tter.


Even the playing field.  Either let me use my Alchemy card, or deny EVERYONE the use of theirs. 

Anything else is unfair.



How am I supposed to show my mastery of Water if I don't have access to the full range of powers that Water allows?

[tyranim]

your not the only one losing out on this, if i could, i would use a ffq/ug deck (i know, opposing cards, but oh well, i tried it, it works for now) but you dont see me complaining about it. besides, your alchemy card is probably the best out there. it gives you frikin nymphs. nymphs! i personaly dont think it would be evening the playing field to allow yours
HOWEVER
there realy is no way of evening the playing field w/o pissing someone off. sorry it was you, but it had to be someone.

[Kamietsu]

You are a Master of a specific element, and being a master of that element, you only use cards from that specific element.

How could it be more clear or logical than that?

/me slaps himself in the forehead.


Scaredgirl, acknowledge this point:

Water contains an Alchemy card that REQUIRES pillars of other types to have any appreciable effect.

By denying the use of off-color pillars, you are denying me -- and ONLY me -- the use of my element's Alchemy card, which is equivalent in effect to denying JMizzle the use of Antimatter because you don't like the way it makes his deck look.

That's straight bullsh!t. 

We agreed on a definition of mono-decks, and you're changing it on us at the brink of an important event based on a knee-jerk decision with no thought given to how fair it is to the players.   Of course, the other Masters are going to go along with you, because I'm literally the only one that REALLY loses out from this rule.


That's even bullsh!tter.


Even the playing field.  Either let me use my Alchemy card, or deny EVERYONE the use of theirs. 

Anything else is unfair.



How am I supposed to show my mastery of Water if I don't have access to the full range of powers that Water allows?

QUANTUM PILLARS!

Nymph tears + a quantum pillar = random nymph. Plus you should have several quantum pillars so you can use the nymphs abilities too. If ANYTHING you have a slight advantage, with the exception to entropy, because you have the ability to gain different elements and be able to use them. No other element besides Entropy and Water get to have a multitude of different element creatures that they can get while still being a mono deck with the new definition.

[Essence]

there realy is no way of evening the playing field w/o pissing someone off. sorry it was you, but it had to be someone.

Absolutely untrue.  Allow off-color pillars but no off-color non-pillar cards, and the playing field is level without anyone suffering.  You get all in-element (non-pillar) cards in your deck, so the B.S. whining about Holy Flash and Nova goes away, but everyone can use all of their Alchemy cards and power multiple off-element creature and permanent skills (BTW, how am I supposed to display mastery over Water if I can't use all of Water's strongest creatures (Physalia, Ulitharid) in the same deck?)


If everyone is so fricking scared of bloody Nymphs, why haven't Nymph's Tears decks started dominating PVP yet?

The answer is that they're just NOT THAT STRONG.  This isn't about me having some secret tech that will destroy you.  It's about NOT sacrificing fairness in favor of some ill-thought-out idea about the appearance of the competing decks.

MECHANICS SHOULD TRUMP APPEARANCES.  EVERY TIME. 

And Nymph's Tears mechanics require off-element pillars, period.



And RE: Quantum Pillars -- Water is not Entropy, and forcing random nymphs into an element that isn't balanced around the idea of randomness (no Supernova) is still crapping all over the idea of Nymph's Tears.  Mutants are defintionally MORE powerful than their normal-creature counterparts, whereas Nymphs are balanced with normal creatures, so forcing random nymphs is more harmful to Water than the randomness of Mutants is to Entropy.  Add the two elements (Supernova + Mutant Superiority) together, and the comparison is laughable at best.

[Reasoner]

[XD for being masters i expected a bit more, no offence what so ever but there just complaining and asking the same question over and over XD

i thought it was straight forward.....



2 months later , Reasoner  master, be ready Terroking

[Kamietsu]

there realy is no way of evening the playing field w/o pissing someone off. sorry it was you, but it had to be someone.

Absolutely untrue.  Allow off-color pillars but no off-color non-pillar cards, and the playing field is level without anyone suffering.  You get all in-element (non-pillar) cards in your deck, so the B.S. whining about Holy Flash and Nova goes away, but everyone can use all of their Alchemy cards and power multiple off-element creature and permanent skills (BTW, how am I supposed to display mastery over Water if I can't use all of Water's strongest creatures (Physalia, Ulitharid) in the same deck?)


If everyone is so fricking scared of bloody Nymphs, why haven't Nymph's Tears decks started dominating PVP yet?

The answer is that they're just NOT THAT STRONG.  This isn't about me having some secret tech that will destroy you.  It's about NOT sacrificing fairness in favor of some ill-thought-out idea about the appearance of the competing decks.

MECHANICS SHOULD TRUMP APPEARANCES.  EVERY TIME. 

And Nymph's Tears mechanics require off-element pillars, period.



And RE: Quantum Pillars -- Water is not Entropy, and forcing random nymphs into an element that isn't balanced around the idea of randomness (no Supernova) is still crapping all over the idea of Nymph's Tears.  Mutants are defintionally MORE powerful than their normal-creature counterparts, whereas Nymphs are balanced with normal creatures, so forcing random nymphs is more harmful to Water than the randomness of Mutants is to Entropy.  Add the two elements (Supernova + Mutant Superiority) together, and the comparison is laughable at best.

Now you are whining like a little child, throwing a little hissy fit in an attempt to get your way. Sorry to be blunt about it but that is what you are doing. Quantum Pillars answer your problem, "Oh no, I can't get the exact nymph I want at this exact moment." Be lucky that you even get something like Nymphs tears. I would jump on that ability, use it to my advantage because no one else gets to do such a thing! You can use a different mark, which gives you the ability to make a poison deck, albeit a little slower than normal.

If you don't like the rules, don't play. Easy win for me.

But I'm done arguing this fact, it's like trying to make a Christian admit there isn't a god.

[Reasoner]

ok, things here need to calm down a bit.... i dont understand the problem though.... use only YOUR ELEMENT YOU PICKED and other, no exceptions no whining... thats how it goes, if you disagree fair enough, dont hate me for it....    (btw i didnt karma u if u somehow think i did.)


sooo we all good now  8)?               


yeah....dont hate me