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Offline VangeliosTopic starter

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129448#msg1129448
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 10:07:16 pm »
 This is a really tough question, if is a "hate darkness" card for example I could tell it was an exorcist.
 Well, we let's suppose he is the Nicola Tesla species, an expert in lightning and power energy that has much to do with aether
and lightning is also  has much to do with light.
 Tesla lived among lightning, I can say he is a tesla and is a creature of light because lightning is gleam and know how to control it
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129454#msg1129454
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2014, 11:32:52 pm »
Okay, that could work, but how would a player know that from looking at the card?
Its important that something in the card lets the player know why its doing what its doing.
In this case, why does specialist mean aether? Why not any other random element?

I think the card would be better thematically if it selected its specialty somehow. Particularly in a way that clues the player in as to why.

E.g. It would make sense if it said "Lightning Specialist" instead of just "Specialist"

On a different note, the ability would be much more useful if you could select this creature's specialty somehow rather than having it be fixed.
Or at the very least, have the specialty adapt to your opponent in some way.
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Offline Annele

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129459#msg1129459
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 12:16:12 am »
Aether does need to be nerfed, but elemental hate is not the way to do it. being able to chose the element it ignores by targetting a card, or at least making it the opponent's mark would make it a lot more balanced, and would still have the same effect against mono aether.
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Offline skyironsword

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129460#msg1129460
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 12:30:18 am »
Aether does need to be nerfed, but elemental hate is not the way to do it. being able to chose the element it ignores by targetting a card, or at least making it the opponent's mark would make it a lot more balanced, and would still have the same effect against mono aether.
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Offline Aves

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129463#msg1129463
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 12:50:00 am »
Spoiler for cards:

With regards to use as a vanilla creature: cost comparisons? Seems to need a nerf.
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Offline VangeliosTopic starter

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129464#msg1129464
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 01:10:33 am »
is balanced if compares with

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Offline Aves

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129465#msg1129465
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 01:18:56 am »
The difference here is that in :light, it completely overshadows the existing cards presented. The cards you put here do not overshadow other cards in their own elements.
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Offline Annele

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129466#msg1129466
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 01:30:36 am »
It's only the elemental hate that's wrong with this card. remove that, in one of the ways mentioned before, and then it should be fairly balanced.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129468#msg1129468
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 01:47:38 am »
It's only the elemental hate that's wrong with this card. remove that, in one of the ways mentioned before, and then it should be fairly balanced.
The difference here is that in :light, it completely overshadows the existing cards presented. The cards you put here do not overshadow other cards in their own elements.
I think Aves has a point with respect to the creature set for the :light element. This creature is clearly built to be high attack and low HP right now. This is quite out of tune with thematic balance of creature stats in :light which are supposed to be relatively even or slightly biased toward HP.

Unupgraded Pegasus is one counter example, but this is partly due to its thematic tie in to the air element which favors higher attack creatures.

So while this creatures stats are balanced with respect to general cost to stat ratio in elements overall, it is out of place to put a creature in :light that has a very high attack to hp ratio.

There is a balancing reason for this as well. It is because light as an element is based around healing, defense, and bolstering allied creatures through spells and skills. If you give it a high attack heavy hitter, it could very easily make :light overpowered compared to the other elements.

In my opinion, the cards stats could use some tweaking before it is perfectly balanced.

So, between that and the elemental hate, I'm still not a big fan of this card at present.

I think it has some very interesting potential, but it still needs a bit of work.
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Offline VangeliosTopic starter

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129469#msg1129469
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2014, 01:49:00 am »
 Pegasus need buff (and is 8 damage without a bonus) and archangel is ok, but have hight hp and skill more usefull
and to me creatures with low quanta are characteristic with high attack

 Annele if you want to make a card based on it that you mentioned feel free :)
 The elemental hate I like a lot, But I just can not find a theme unfortunately :(
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129472#msg1129472
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 02:04:59 am »
Pegasus need buff (and is 8 damage without a bonus) and archangel is ok, but have hight hp and skill more usefull
and to me creatures with low quanta are characteristic with high attack

 Annele if you want to make a card based on it that you mentioned feel free :)
 The elemental hate I like a lot, But I just can not find a theme unfortunately :(
I think the current theme of a specialist works well if the ability adapts to the opponent's mark. Otherwise it needs a tie in to make sense for only specializing against aether. I just don't see that under :light myself.

Thematically, :time is actually the elemental opposite of :aether ... I think the theme there is that time is about keeping things from happening all at once whereas aether is about distribution if matter among different dimensions. Not sure if that helps, but its a start.

Spoiler for elemental opposites according to Zanzarino:
cardinal elements: :aether opposite to :time , :entropy opposite to :gravity
spirit elements: :life opposite to :death , :light opposite to :darkness
material elements: :fire opposite to :water , :air opposite to :earth

I'll say it again, elemental hate is difficult to pull off well in elements for a number of reasons, but if you can get a good thematic backing for it, at least you can have believable support for it.
So... if you are set on the ability being specific to aether, look into the core themes of each element and see if you can find some inspiration there.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/overview-of-the-elements/msg1074740/#msg1074740

Looking at :earth , this may be a nice place to start. In terms of the electricity tie in for aether, it certainly makes sense. Think grounding rod.
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Offline Aves

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Re: The Specialist | The Expert https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53934.msg1129483#msg1129483
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 03:55:01 am »
Hp is not worth as much as atk in terms of quanta cost. High attack to hp ratios favor rushes/efficiency. We can see this in the case of graboid use compared to antlion use. This card has a similar effect on pegasus, and especially on archangel.

Pegasus compliments buffs-- it does not need them, and the upkeep of :air makes it far more restrictive (though with greater synergy) than a vanilla creature--pegasus is more expensive.
For archangel, 1 att and a greatly underpowered ability and 3 hp for an extra 2 :light will almost never make sense, or else we'd all be using stone dragons instead of shriekers. 

I also agree with the points Odin and Annelle have made, but I believe that the mild imbalance exacerbates the thematic issue.

I do apologize for the brevity-- keyboard is messed up and it takes forever to type/format words properly.
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