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Faustinian

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Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23805#msg23805
« on: February 07, 2010, 02:19:57 am »
This is another one of my card suggestion threads, the #2 thread in the series, and is about my favorite element Fire, but only in context  :P

Card Artwork is not included for now but will come with updates to the ideas. Suggestions for upgraded versions welcome.

Format is -

Name
Cost
Strength/Toughness
Ability

Concept

Creatures

Cthonic Knight
2 :fire
6/3
At the end of every turn, Cthonic Knight deals 2 damage to you.

A complete redo of the Radiant Knight, which will be saved for later. This one emphasizes Fire's careless brutality to even those who wield while providing raw speed and power.

Cthonic Envoy
4 :fire
4/2
 :fire :fire:Inflame - Target creature gains +2/-2

A replacement for the Radiant Missionary, this one is a Rage potion inside a creature. Left brittle so he has to use it on another card.

Pyromancer
3 :fire
1/2
 :fire: Ignite - Deal 1 damage to target

I was kind of wondering why Fire did not already have a card like this...

Cinder Golem
3 :fire
5/2
 :fire: Kindle - Sacrifice Cinder Golem and add :fire equal to it's attack.
Each time Cinder Golem deals damage, it's attack is reduced by 1.

A quick, beefy creature that quickly grows weak that can also act as a quantum source.

Brimstone Devourer
4 :fire
0/5
 :fire :fire: Gobble - Brimstone Devourer destroys target Pillar and gets +1/-1.

When Brimstone Devourer is destroyed, deal it's attack in damage to target.

Still expounding upon the self-destructing abilities. I am much happier with this infinitely more dangerous version - may need to cost more however.

Spells

Burnout
3 :fire
Target creature gets +3/-1 and 1 poison counter every turn it is still alive.

Big, flexible boost for Fire that displays it's paper thin defense fairly well - thanks to Lanidrak for the suggestion. Much scarier now :)

Quanta Combustion
4 :fire
Remove 1 quanta per color from your opponent and deal 1 damage for each Quanta removed.

Great against rainbow decks, poor against mono. Improved over Blinding Radiance, and really hurts right after any Nove/Supernova.

Ashen Renewal
2 :fire
Discard your hand, then draw the same number of cards you had

A good refresh card or start again card. This will help decks be more consistent, but at a slight cost. Reduced cost so it can be played earlier.

Artifacts

Choking Rain
4 :fire
Non-Fire or Earth creatures gain -1/+0

The card title might a bit confusing - think of after a Volcanic eruption when it's rains ash. Needs card to be full explained, and possibly a better name. May be a bit expensive.

Volcanic Ground
N/A
Gain : :fire at the beginning of every turn. Sacrifice to destroy target Pillar.

A quantum source alternative, with quantum denial.

Thoughts and criticisms?  I know some of these cards need reworks, but the template is there.

Replaced Cards

Radiant Knight
5 :fire
4/5
 :light: Champion - All damage that would be dealt to target source is dealt to Radiant Knight instead. If that source is a creature, Radiant Knight deals it's damage to that creature.

It was hard thinking of something that both Light and Fire would use, even though the Elements reeked of synergy. After much contemplation, I came up with Purge, Scour, and Champion - Radiant Knight uses Champion, which is built upon the idea of self-sacrifice. Purge is used by Radiant Missionary - this set won't feature Scour, as that will be in the Light set.

Radiant Missionary
4 :fire
4/2
 :light :light :light :Purge - Remove all buffs and penalties from target creature.

Another possible way to deal with poison and the like. However, it will also reduce any card to it's original state, so be careful or the consequences could be disastrous.

Brimstone Devourer
4 :fire
0/5
 :fire :fire: Gobble - Sacrifice target card. Brimstone Devourer destroys target Pillar and gets +1/-1.

Still expounding upon the self-destructing abilities. This card is supposed to hamper your opponents quantum resources, however, he feels very much incomplete to me - something is missing, and I am not sure what it is.

Blinding Radiance
3 :fire
Deal 1 damage to target for each different color quanta the controller has.

Combustion Sphere
8 :fire
Reduce all incoming damage by 1. All incoming damage is spread evenly amongst creatures you control.

Lanidrak

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23820#msg23820
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 02:50:44 am »
Okay, first off, there are a few things here which are not completely compatible with the current game mechanic - as in, they would need specific coding to the way the game works, for them to even be considered as options for future implementation. I'll go over a few here:

Note: Some may just need clarity, it's 02:30 here, and I'm sleepy.

Champion: Am I right in saying that this works like a Gravity Pull, in that, you cast Champion on yourself, and the next turn, all incoming damage is dealt to the Radiant Knight instead of to yourself? That is overpowered, Armaggios have 25 hit points for that very reason, this Knight only has 5. "if that source is a creature" - The radiant knight simply deals 5 damage to a target creature? Way too overpowered.

Purge: Remove all buffs and penalties from target creature; there is no variable in the game to remember what buffs go on to a target creature, for example, you play blessing and the creature gets +3/+3, that Cockatrice for example, simply becomes a 7/7 Cockatrice. It is not a Cockatrice /w Blessing attached. Similarly, Momentum is added as a skill which gives +1/+1, the ability Lobotomize removes the 'skill' Momentum, but does not remove the stat bonus.

A way to rework this, would be for it to work in a similar manner to Rewind Time; remove the target creature from play, and all its buffs, penalties, poisons etc. Except to not remove it, simply to replace it with the original card. I think that, as an alternative working to the mechanism could work.

Note: My knowledge of coding is minimal at best, I'm just speaking from experience from being on this board and community for a while and knowing what people have, in the past, shot down and/or flamed for being a 'nightmare to code'.

Pyromancer: Okay, a good concept and not too overpowered. Maybe make the upgraded version deal 3 damage to a target creature and 1 damage to the pyromancer?

Brimstone Devourer/Gobble: Cards cannot have two abilities. You suggest that this card is able for you to 1st sacrifice a card in play (presumably your own), then 2nd gain +1/-1 and then also destroy a target pillar. Just think about the clicking this would involve, in PvP you only get 60 seconds to do your turn... Click Devourer, Click Sacrificial Creature, Click Pillar to destroy. Nope, wouldn't work.

I think, as an alternative. Make the Brimstone Devourer like a Ignition Sprite (or something; see my note at the top about it being late and my brain going numb). As in, make it work like Aether's spark card, 3/0 stats, so you play it, it attacks and dies. Then, make it's ability, 'Sprites attack causes a random enemy pillar to be destroyed'. Finally, make the Sprite immortal, so that you cannot +0/+3 it with a Plate Armor and have a permanent creature with pillar denial.

Cinder Golem: An interesting concept, but there is a conflict in the mechanics. Sacrificing the Golem to play a spell less than his attack? The game does not have variables to hold specific details about creatures attacks, it also does not have the ability (as far as I know) to translate that into a quanta cost. A much easier work-a-round will be to give the Cinder Golem the ability Flame-Burst (again, sorry for the name), which destroys the Golem and gives you 5 Fire quanta?

Not sure if passive skills work in conjunction with activated skills - see my note somewhere on cards not having two abilities.

Burnout: An interesting concept, would work like poison but with a bonus increase to offense? Would become overpowered when used with Adrenaline - which literally causes your creature to attack up to 4 times a turn (triggering any effects which happen: "at the end of your turn"). But otherwise, perfect and I quite like it.

Maybe alternatively, make your Cinder Golem start with this ability? I don't know any more! :)

Blinding Radiance: Too weak, in a way. Black Hole, the new gravity card, absorbs 3 quanta per element from your opponent and gives you that amount back as life. So, theoretically: 12 elements x 3 = 36 healed & your opponent loses 36 quanta. Make this either deal more damage (risks being too strong) or make it burn some of your opponents quanta (too many denial cards maybe?)

Ashen Renewal: interesting in a way, but I am not sure if there is any method to re-shuffle the deck once a game has started, shouldn't be too hard to implement I'd imagine. Also the gain +1 extra card, what if you have 8 cards, eg. Start the game, opponent goes first, you have 7 useless cards and you draw Ashen Renewal as your 8th?

Combustion Sphere: Not sure there is a mechanic in-game for this to work, dividing total damage by total creatures can create 0.53 numbers which I don't think the game can handle, would these be rounded up or down? Which is more fair? And this card, although perfect for fire, would be better for another element - fire typically has low HP creatures.

Volcanic Ground: Again a nice alternative pillar. If anything I want to see 12 of these sorts of cards, one for each element - permanents not pillars though. And with an element specific ability :D.


Hope this helps.

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23821#msg23821
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 02:52:10 am »
Fire light??

Beacon of hope.  If a creature would die, this turn, instead replace it's HP with 1, and one poison damage.  If the creature would die of poison, let it die.

Faustinian

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23841#msg23841
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 03:46:28 am »
Okay, first off, there are a few things here which are not completely compatible with the current game mechanic - as in, they would need specific coding to the way the game works, for them to even be considered as options for future implementation. I'll go over a few here:

Note: Some may just need clarity, it's 02:30 here, and I'm sleepy.
Don't worry, thread will still be here tomorrow and I'll still be fine-tuning them  :D

Champion: Am I right in saying that this works like a Gravity Pull, in that, you cast Champion on yourself, and the next turn, all incoming damage is dealt to the Radiant Knight instead of to yourself? That is overpowered, Armaggios have 25 hit points for that very reason, this Knight only has 5. "if that source is a creature" - The radiant knight simply deals 5 damage to a target creature? Way too overpowered.
Not quite. Gravity pull works only for you - Champion is supposed to work for a creature. Ability is a bit situational, and the original idea was that anything that would happen to the Championed creature instead happens to Radiant Knight.

Also, Radiant Knight was/is supposed to be able to retaliate if outright attacked. I actually thought of Radiant Knight as a "Golden Rule" card - do unto others as they would do to you. I then tried to find a theme between Fire and Light that would accomplish this.

An alternative could be just let the Radiant Knight be the out right aggressor - allow it to directly attack other creatures, with the penalty that the other creature deals it's damage back to the Radiant Knight, and simply rename the ability from "Champion" to "Crusader".

The other option that I was screwing around with made him spawn or search the deck for "Radiant Soldiers", but that goes into the whole "Radiant Theme" I have in my head, and isn't the topic of this thread.

Purge: Remove all buffs and penalties from target creature; there is no variable in the game to remember what buffs go on to a target creature, for example, you play blessing and the creature gets +3/+3, that Cockatrice for example, simply becomes a 7/7 Cockatrice. It is not a Cockatrice /w Blessing attached. Similarly, Momentum is added as a skill which gives +1/+1, the ability Lobotomize removes the 'skill' Momentum, but does not remove the stat bonus.

A way to rework this, would be for it to work in a similar manner to Rewind Time; remove the target creature from play, and all its buffs, penalties, poisons etc. Except to not remove it, simply to replace it with the original card. I think that, as an alternative working to the mechanism could work.

Note: My knowledge of coding is minimal at best, I'm just speaking from experience from being on this board and community for a while and knowing what people have, in the past, shot down and/or flamed for being a 'nightmare to code'.
Even with the alternate mechanism, it would still effectively work the same way - it'd just be coding difference. To the computer, it would remove the target from play, and then resummon it as the original card. To us, we just see the status's and buffs go away.

Pyromancer: Okay, a good concept and not too overpowered. Maybe make the upgraded version deal 3 damage to a target creature and 1 damage to the pyromancer?
Lavamancer as a name?

Brimstone Devourer/Gobble: Cards cannot have two abilities. You suggest that this card is able for you to 1st sacrifice a card in play (presumably your own), then 2nd gain +1/-1 and then also destroy a target pillar. Just think about the clicking this would involve, in PvP you only get 60 seconds to do your turn... Click Devourer, Click Sacrificial Creature, Click Pillar to destroy. Nope, wouldn't work.

I think, as an alternative. Make the Brimstone Devourer like a Ignition Sprite (or something; see my note at the top about it being late and my brain going numb). As in, make it work like Aether's spark card, 3/0 stats, so you play it, it attacks and dies. Then, make it's ability, 'Sprites attack causes a random enemy pillar to be destroyed'. Finally, make the Sprite immortal, so that you cannot +0/+3 it with a Plate Armor and have a permanent creature with pillar denial.
Hmmm...well, the concept was the "Gobble" as an ability was to consume resources. With that in mind, I have two versions in my head.

#1 - Brimstone Devourer comes in, with X attack power and 0 defense, where X is equal to your Fire Pillars, and then does what you say - when it leaves play, target Pillar is destroyed.

#2 - Much more interesting one. Brimstone Devourer comes in as a X/Y, whichever stats I eventually assign it. It can still Gobble, and can target any Pillars. However, when it destroys a Pillar, 2 quantum of that Pillars color are added to their quanta pool.

Cinder Golem: An interesting concept, but there is a conflict in the mechanics. Sacrificing the Golem to play a spell less than his attack? The game does not have variables to hold specific details about creatures attacks, it also does not have the ability (as far as I know) to translate that into a quanta cost. A much easier work-a-round will be to give the Cinder Golem the ability Flame-Burst (again, sorry for the name), which destroys the Golem and gives you 5 Fire quanta?

Not sure if passive skills work in conjunction with activated skills - see my note somewhere on cards not having two abilities.
The problem with this is it would hike the Golems cost up if it simply created 5 quanta. I also think it would be fairly simply to code. The program would check to see if Cinder Golem is dead, if so, then check attack, and then add the attack number-1 as quantums to the quanta pool.

Burnout: An interesting concept, would work like poison but with a bonus increase to offense? Would become overpowered when used with Adrenaline - which literally causes your creature to attack up to 4 times a turn (triggering any effects which happen: "at the end of your turn"). But otherwise, perfect and I quite like it.

Maybe alternatively, make your Cinder Golem start with this ability? I don't know any more! :)
Yes, that is about right - and the effect with adrenaline is correct to. The creature thus enchanted would literally burnout and kill itself.

For clarification, the +3/+0 happens once. It is only the +0/-1 that happens each time at the end of your turn.

Blinding Radiance: Too weak, in a way. Black Hole, the new gravity card, absorbs 3 quanta per element from your opponent and gives you that amount back as life. So, theoretically: 12 elements x 3 = 36 healed & your opponent loses 36 quanta. Make this either deal more damage (risks being too strong) or make it burn some of your opponents quanta (too many denial cards maybe?)
Or just redo the whole card. This was technically filler as I tried to fill the 10 card qouta. I'm going to sleep on it anyway. Fire is pretty difficult unto itself considering it has most of what it needs. Possibly an anti-weapon/armor card?

Ashen Renewal: interesting in a way, but I am not sure if there is any method to re-shuffle the deck once a game has started, shouldn't be too hard to implement I'd imagine. Also the gain +1 extra card, what if you have 8 cards, eg. Start the game, opponent goes first, you have 7 useless cards and you draw Ashen Renewal as your 8th?
Not quite - the +1 is to make up for Ashen Renewal's absence from being counted. When you play it, your hand is reduced to 7, since Ashen doesn't count itself, and then 7 new cards, +1 are added to your hand. Also, no reshuffling - you discard cards. once you discard them, they are gone.

Combustion Sphere: Not sure there is a mechanic in-game for this to work, dividing total damage by total creatures can create 0.53 numbers which I don't think the game can handle, would these be rounded up or down? Which is more fair? And this card, although perfect for fire, would be better for another element - fire typically has low HP creatures.
Yes, indeed. Looking over this list of cards, I am not happy, and will most likely make major changes tomorrow to them.

Volcanic Ground: Again a nice alternative pillar. If anything I want to see 12 of these sorts of cards, one for each element - permanents not pillars though. And with an element specific ability :D.


Hope this helps.
This is about the only one I see no need to change  :))

bobcamel

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23904#msg23904
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 01:55:34 pm »
Champion: Protects one creature or you, if a creature attacked this you're protecting also deal 4 (base) or more damage to it, repeat if Champion is still alive. Sounds fine.

Missionary: Been somewhere, seen Normalize. Making it an ability on a brittle creature... well, possible and fine. Hard against Growth things and such, does nothing against creatures in base state. Is alright

Pyromancer: Nibbler. Surprisingly it hasn't been suggested yet. Sounds fine, and pretty brutal when you get multiple of those out.

Brimstone thingy: Sounds very messy as it is, I agree. Card sacrifice is a particularly costly thing, so the effect sounds sort of weak compared to the cost. One pillar? EQ destroys three, with 1 :earth: 1pillar ratio.

Cinder Golem: Sacrifice to gain  :fire in amount equal to its attack and it becomes much easier to code.

Burnout: Plate Armor gives 0/+3 for 1 :earth, this gives +3/0 for 4 :fire and an added debuff. This is when you use it for buffing qualities. On the other side we have the debuff use, but a normal Infection costs 1  :death, does the same thing as an creature ability and doesn't buff the enemy's attack. I really don't know what could this card be useful for. Drop the cost, highly, maybe.

Blinding Radiance: Yeah, weak. 12 damage at most, and that's pretty poor for a 3 cost spell. I'd rather Firebolt. If it's Blinding, you may want to consider accuracy reduction for the enemy's creatures, or something.

Ashen Renewal: By the time I get 3 Fire I'm pretty sure I have had enough pillars in my starting hand, and it'll sort itself out from there on. But... well, it's brutal with the massive discard, but... oh, fine. I wouldn't be using it, still - cards are too valuable to just throw them away.

Combustion Sphere: And how much HP do my creatures have, exactly? Not much. Gravity Pull is a very good card for creature control, as it makes your creatures deal damage to enemy creature, what is a huge overkill. And then I spend 8  :fire to make all my cards Pull, including those 12/3 Crimson Dragons that'll die themselves before they have a chance due to this. Bad idea.

Volcanic Ground: So, again something that makes current Pillars obsolete by doing the... ah, now they're limited to 6 per deck. Woo. Still, those are so good I'd pack 6 of those and then add Pillars until the desired amount, as they do the same thing PLUS something extra.

Lanidrak

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23950#msg23950
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 04:13:36 pm »
Just a quick thought regarding Burnout...

I think it should work as though I originally thought. Maybe with a little change

Burnout
Cost: :fire :fire :fire
Ability: Target creature gains +3/-1 and 1 poison counter every turn it is still alive.

That way, a high hp creature can be potentially made into a fast (fastest?) offensive growth creature in the game. The poison is cumulative, as is the stat bonus.

Reasoning for this, you have an Armaggio:

1/25, you play Burnout on it, it becomes a 4/24 with 1 Poison
then a 7/22 with 2 Poison
then a 10/19 with 3 Poison
then a 13/15 with 4 Poison
then a 16/10 with 5 Poison
then a 19/4 with 6 Poison
then it attacks for 19 and dies.

That is a total of 70 damage from 1 creature in 7 Turns.
That's an average of 10 damage a turn.

Not too overpowered in theory - you play a 10/x creature and it survives for 7 turns? Not too unlikely. The real synergies enter the equation when you carry Heals (Light synergy) and armor buffs (Earth synergy). Ultimately, the creature will eventually die because of the cumulative poison - but you can make him survive a lot longer from his own debuff.

Alternatively:

Burnout
Cost :fire
Ability: Target creature gets +2/-2 every turn until it dies.

This working will substitute damage buff for increased damage over time - the problem here lies in that if you do happen to have an Archangel or anything that can Heal, is, this creature will grow +2 every turn provided you heal him ever turn.... Is that so bad? Growth currently gives +2/+2 every turn (provided you have the quanta).

bobcamel

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg23966#msg23966
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 05:28:33 pm »
Both options sound better than the current version.

Konata says Good Job! (
)

Faustinian

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg24243#msg24243
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 06:49:59 am »
Major Update

Radiant Knight, Radiant Missionary, Blinding Radiance, and Combustion Sphere replaced.
Brimstone Devourer significantly altered.
Lowered the cost of Ashen Renewal by  :fire
Burnout has been adjusted based upon Lanidrak's suggestions
Cinder Golem now produces  :fire quanta when sacrificed.

Faustinian

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Re: Card Suggestions - Fire Element https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg24364#msg24364
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 09:15:48 pm »
No one else has any comments?

 

anything
blarg: