Subduction | Subduction

[choongmyoung]

I also think Quicksand is a terrible name for upgraded Earthquake, and the name Quicksand incredibly fits this card well.
About the card - if you say unburrow costs 1 , this is OP imo.
If you say unburrow costs 0, this is more balanced but still very powerful.
The true power of this shield is: it lobotomizes and prevents using skill of all attacking creatures.
Even if a creature unburrows, it just used its skill(unburrow) so it cannot use its any skill of its(like additional Mitosis or BE). It's like every-turn summoning sickness.
(Even if this shield does not lobotomizes but only buries attacking creature so that they keep their skill after unburrowed, the shield prevents using it)

[jazzfan27]

I suppose I could give it the skill, " : Burrow" which would have a "0: unburrow" built in.

At that point you'd get zero damage reduction though, only the lobotomy effect.

How about, "1: unburrow" as a compromise?  At least it would put a drain on your opp's quanta to keep attacking at full strength.

Or just go with, " : Burrow" and lower the cost of the card a bit?

[Anarook]

Am I the only one who thinks a shield that lobotomizes everything that hits it is ridiculously OP?

[jazzfan27]

Would it help if it was a spell instead of a shield?

[OdinVanguard]

One place to start is looking at procrastination and duskmantle.
-Both yield roughly 50% damage reductions like this shield.
-Both cost 6
-Both give reduction by "preventing" attacks (either through delay or avoidance)
-Both leave ability intact

This card:
-Yields 50% damage reduction
-Forcibly changes active skill
-Does not actually "prevent" attacks, just reduces damage dealt
-Damage reduction is countered if opponent spends 1 per attacker per turn
-Leaves attackers protected from being targeted

So the questions I see here are:
1) How much cost-value should be given to auto-skill removal on a shield (This the most important factor I think)
2) How much of a counterbalancing effect does making attackers untargetable add
3) How much counterbalancing does allowing the enemy to negate the effect using add
4) How should the fact that no attacks get fully stopped be factored in (if at all)

[jazzfan27]

One thing to note:  I made it so that the burrowing comes after damage is assigned.  Meaning the shield blocks no damage on the first attack.  This lowers teh effective damage reduction quite a bit.

Say you have a creature with 6 attack that attacks 4 times.

6
3
3
3
 
15/4 = 3.75

So, in this limited scenario you are getting a 37.5% reduction in damage, not 50%.  The more times the creature attacks the higher the percentage will be.

The lobotomy effect is very strong, but also somewhat spotty.  Against some decks it's huge, against others it's meaningless.  Say you face mono-dark.  The devourers, vampires, and dragons are all going to be unaffected.  The gargoyles will be hurt a bit, but, they will just be trading one defense for another, so not a big loss.

Obviously, if you are facing a deck with Otyghs and firefly queens the story is quite the reverse.  I'm just saying it's not a death sentence to every creature based deck, it now only removes activated abilities.

So, a couple questions:

Better as a spell?
Better with a zero cost unburrow?
Better with a 1 cost unborrow?

[OdinVanguard]

Am I the only one who thinks a shield that lobotomizes everything that hits it is ridiculously OP?

I also think Quicksand is a terrible name for upgraded Earthquake, and the name Quicksand incredibly fits this card well.
About the card - if you say unburrow costs 1 , this is OP imo.
If you say unburrow costs 0, this is more balanced but still very powerful.
The true power of this shield is: it lobotomizes and prevents using skill of all attacking creatures.
Even if a creature unburrows, it just used its skill(unburrow) so it cannot use its any skill of its(like additional Mitosis or BE). It's like every-turn summoning sickness.
(Even if this shield does not lobotomizes but only buries attacking creature so that they keep their skill after unburrowed, the shield prevents using it)

Yes, the auto-lobotomize is the most significant impact right now.

What would be cool is if there were a way to make use of the burrow / unburrow mechanic without having to permanently replace the victim's skill.

E.g. what if the shield burried its victims, halving their attacks and nullifying their skills until the owner pays to unburry them (cost should probably be either or match the creature's element)

So it would work something like this:

Player A puts up this shield.
Player B attacks it with a minor vampire
-The minor vampire is burried, halving its attack and turning off its skill
-Player B can the click on the vampire to pay 1 in order to unburry it and reinstate the original skill... Or they can leave it a shell of its former self till they pay up

[jazzfan27]

The thing there is activating the unburrow would count as that creatures ability for the turn.  But assuming they can destroy the shield it would be effective.  Would negate most of the damage reduction, but I can live with that.

[OdinVanguard]

The thing there is activating the unburrow would count as that creatures ability for the turn.  But assuming they can destroy the shield it would be effective.  Would negate most of the damage reduction, but I can live with that.

True... for creatures that have active skills that require direct use, this would still be extremely potent.
For creatures with active skills like "venom" or "vampire" it would be less so.

Perhaps the "readiness" mechanic from SoR could get used to allow active skills to be used after being re-enabled.

E.g. Using the "unbury" skill reverts the creature to full damage, and both restores and readies the old ability.

So, in essence, the shield is forcing the opponent to pay extra quanta to deal full damage and use active skills of each of their creatures. It becomes an odd, but effective hybrid between CC and QC.

Also of interest... This shield would have some very odd interactions with adrenaline

[jazzfan27]

So, I changed it to a spell instead of a shield.  Hopefully this addresses some of the OP concerns.  I think it compares with Pandemonium now.  (the upgraded one)

With the new name being a verb instead of a noun a spell seemed to make more sense anyway.

[Hazardus10]

Great card, but still a little overpowered, since it can lobotomize the enemy field in on go.  To make this card less OP, instead of 100% chance of lobotomizing and burrowing all creatures, why not make it 75% or 50%? That way there are a chance for some creatures to be unaffected, while others are. This would not only justify for the quanta cost, but would make it unique in that it is a percentage chance spell.

[jazzfan27]

Great card, but still a little overpowered, since it can lobotomize the enemy field in on go.  To make this card less OP, instead of 100% chance of lobotomizing and burrowing all creatures, why not make it 75% or 50%? That way there are a chance for some creatures to be unaffected, while others are. This would not only justify for the quanta cost, but would make it unique in that it is a percentage chance spell.

I'm not opposed to that if folks like the idea.