Poll

How should the upped be ordered?

Overdrive -> Liquid Shadow -> Blessing
Overdrive -> Blessing -> Liquid Shadow
Blessing -> Overdrive -> Liquid Shadow
Blessing -> Liquid Shadow -> Overdrive
Liquid Shadow -> Overdrive -> Blessing
Liquid Shadow -> Blessing -> Overdrive

*Author

Offline EspithelTopic starter

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Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143636#msg1143636
« on: July 02, 2014, 07:42:52 pm »
NAME:
Spellslinger Tower
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
4 :fire
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
Magical when flying
TEXT:
Cast abilities in sucession.
:water :water :water: Freeze
:earth :earth: Basilisk Blood
:air: Shockwave
NAME:
Spellslinger Spire
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
4 :fire
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
Magical when flying
TEXT:
Cast abilities in sucession.
:gravity :gravity :gravity: Overdrive
:darkness :darkness: Liquid Shadow
:light: Blessing   

ART:
Pokémon / Me (PLACEHOLDER ART. DON'T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A TWIST.)
IDEA:
Me
NOTES:
7 element synergy in one, guys!
Much like Realignment | Syzygy, This card starts at the top ability each turn. When you use the top ability, the permanent readies and you can use the middle ability. If you use the middle ability, the permanent readies and you can use the bottom ability. You can go through all abilities once a turn. At the end of the turn, you go back up to the top ability.

So... Quartet card. Is that a first?


SERIES:


Offline dragtom

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143649#msg1143649
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 09:08:24 pm »
I don't see many deck ideas that would run the upped.
I think the unupped is easier to use.

Note that you can use a duo/trio and ignore the remaining abilities.

Also, I've always felt like a spellcaster tends towards :aether.
Maybe it's just me, but it kind of feels like the medium to channel spells through.

also, the unupped seems kind of strong in a catapult-based deck.
perhaps having it cost 4 makes it not easy to stick in.

Finally, i like the 'towering' effect you have going on in the price (4-3-2-1).
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline andretimpa

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143658#msg1143658
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 09:46:42 pm »
I didn't understood the connection with :fire . Maybe making this card :rainbow would make it easier to use?

Spoiler for Hidden:
dat art  :P
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143665#msg1143665
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 10:00:33 pm »
While very interesting, this is literally forcing a quartet unless you only use the topmost ability.
Quartets are so unstable right now that I doubt this would see any use outside of 'bows.

I didn't understood the connection with :fire . Maybe making this card :rainbow would make it easier to use?

Spoiler for Hidden:
dat art  :P

^Making this a :rainbow card would definitely help. At least that way it would not require including fire for the sole purpose of casting this.

At that rate, I could see using this in a duo fairly effectively.
The upped could conceivably be used with voodoo dolls or any of the high HP gravity creatures.

I would actually try putting the unupped into a gravity water earth deck just for the railgun potential. A trio is pretty unstable, but that might not be too bad considering how potent lobbing frozen BB'd creatures at the opponent can be.
Could possibly do so with this, grav mark, water pillars and earth pends. Just have to pop in photons and sparks for fodder.

As andretimpa noted, there isn't much of connection to fire here, and forcing the quartet really only serves to make it 'bow dependent.

I only had 1 vote for the poll, but really any of the combos where liquid shadow goes last seem most useful. I can think of a lot more that blessing and overdrive can get used for than L.S. which is really best after popping the blessings and letting a few turns of overdrive go by. That way there would be a high damage output to make it worth poisoning the creature and pulling off overdrive.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 10:03:49 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143667#msg1143667
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 10:04:22 pm »
The most confusing card thread for me yet. Pokémon art, black font of unidentifiable emoticon on pink background for no apparent reason, "ATK|HP: Magical when flying". I don't even.

Two balance issues with this card; 1: Too strong in a rainbow, especially if you play 6 of them. 2: "You can go through all abilities once a turn." This means you can Freeze and Shockwave each turn with each copy of this card. The BB doesn't even save them, should you be forced to use it on them. Insanity is the only word I can find.

Even if you fix problem #2, it will still be too strong in a rainbow.

Design problem: upped one is mostly redundant in any practical deck. You don't need repeatable uses of OD and Blessing in a rainbow since mass-buffing one creature is usually a worse idea than Fractalling it (however, it's a fun card that can quickly turn a Photon into a monster), and LS is completely overshadowed by the unupped card when it comes to CC.
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Offline EspithelTopic starter

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143793#msg1143793
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 01:21:37 pm »
Starting in reverse order:
I'll clean the OP up when I get actual art for the card, Higurashi.
Seeing it costs 6 quanta of three different elements per shockwave, and a fourth element to get it out in the first place, it's not the easiest thing to just spam and pull off. Even in rainbows, you're going to struggle to pull off the cost continuously, especially considering when a lightning or RT or even just an octopus will do the job just as well.
That's why the card has an element and isn't just chroma; I anticipated the fact it had the one hit kill combo on the card, which is why it's a quartet on a card, being really unstable.
(FYI, the emoticon is called rage candy. It's two angry faces put together >:U U:<. I could just do >:O:< but I'm too hipster for >:O, as you can probably tell by this card in general.)

...Making the card chroma buffs rainbows even more, which, as Higs has pointed out, is not good.
How about making this card use mirror pseudoquanta, or quanta of your mark, Odin/Andre?
That wouldn't hurt decks that would use this whilst keeping the rainbows about the same power.
I just feel that spellslinging decks go in fire, because fire has most of the cards worth spellslinging.
But, yeah, in this case, it's not doing stuff to cards, so it could go in aether, or mirror.

The upped is nichier than the unupped, so that's why it's the upped; I'll save you 1500 precious electrum. Yw.
It doesn't have to be powerful, it just has to be fun. Like SoSeren isn't powerful but it's fun.
I feel the upped is fun, which is why I'm fine with it being weaker than the unupped.

Although, if we were to make the card blessing -> overdrive -> liquid shadow... I feel that's the strongest ordering. Spam +15 | +15 a turn :P

Spoiler for Hidden:
And, yes, dat art.
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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143883#msg1143883
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 05:36:17 pm »
Seeing it costs 6 quanta of three different elements per shockwave, and a fourth element to get it out in the first place, it's not the easiest thing to just spam and pull off. Even in rainbows, you're going to struggle to pull off the cost continuously
No, you're not going to struggle. At all.

especially considering when a lightning or RT or even just an octopus will do the job just as well.
...the -entire- problem with this card is that you can use all three abilities every turn for infinity. You can instakill one creature per turn and delay another for 6 turns, or you can freeze one, delay one and shockwave another. PER TURN. A lighting is one card, as is RT, and it's gone when used. When quanta isn't an issue, you have to take a long, hard look at how powerful a card is. Compare this to Owl's Eye, Otyugh, Squid.. not spells.
As for Octopus, it clearly doesn't do the job as well when this card can instakill or CC three creatures per turn where Octopus can't even kill at all. Plus Octopus is easier to get rid of since CC is used in larger quantities than PC. Plus PA is cheaper than Quint for a rainbow and doesn't have the perm dying to Fire Buckler or Spine Carapace.

Squid is only marginally cheaper for a rainbow, but for consecutive turns it becomes harder and harder to fund because it's only :water cost. This card spreads the cost out, which makes it very easy to pay for any QT controlbow, with or without Snovas.

That's why the card has an element and isn't just chroma; I anticipated the fact it had the one hit kill combo on the card, which is why it's a quartet on a card, being really unstable.
A quartet card just becomes a rainbow card, simple as that. It's not unstable at all: every turn it's the best CC card in the entire game by -far-.
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Offline iDaire

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143887#msg1143887
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 05:44:36 pm »
Looks very situational in a regular elements the game experience. I mean, let's be honest.
If the skills cycle, one would need a trio of elements to actually use this, which means you just forced a combo onto the outside elements population. I'd give the card 2/5 if this is the case.
If the skills activate simultaneously, no. Just no. There are going to be a lot of decks that look to freeze then delay then uselessly damage. (1/5)

The upgraded version isn't much of a boost with either since it has the same problems as unupped.
2.5/5

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143888#msg1143888
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2014, 06:05:56 pm »
The most confusing card thread for me yet. Pokémon art, black font of unidentifiable emoticon on pink background for no apparent reason, "ATK|HP: Magical when flying". I don't even.

I laughed more than I should.


I agree, however.

Offline EspithelTopic starter

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143890#msg1143890
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 06:16:52 pm »
Looks very situational in a regular elements the game experience. I mean, let's be honest.
If the skills cycle, one would need a trio of elements to actually use this, which means you just forced a combo onto the outside elements population. I'd give the card 2/5 if this is the case.
If the skills activate simultaneously, no. Just no. There are going to be a lot of decks that look to freeze then delay then uselessly damage. (1/5)

The upgraded version isn't much of a boost with either since it has the same problems as unupped.
2.5/5


Here's only very clear problem:
What if you don't want to use all three?
You don't have to. (And thus, they don't happen all at once. They happen in succession if you were to cast all three.)
You can just freeze.
You can freeze and BB and catapult,
Or just freeze and catapult, or just freeze and BB as double stall.
Or you can freeze and shockwave, using the BB to stall something else which you'll freeze next turn,
Or you can freeze and BB, catapulting it, then shockwaving something else to kill it.
That's just the unupped.

The upped can be used to kill things and buff things. It's scarily more powerful.
If you ask me, saying this card is situational, given how proactive it is with catapults and other cards, as well as how much choice it gives you, is saying lightning is situational, or fractal.


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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143892#msg1143892
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 06:34:37 pm »

Here's only very clear problem:
What if you don't want to use all three?
You don't have to. (And thus, they don't happen all at once. They happen in succession if you were to cast all three.)
You can just freeze.
You can freeze and BB and catapult,
Or just freeze and catapult, or just freeze and BB as double stall.
Or you can freeze and BB, catapulting it, then shockwaving something else to kill it.
Or you can freeze and shockwave, using the BB to stall something else which you'll freeze next turn,
That's just the unupped.
The upped can be used to kill things and buff things. It's scarily more powerful.
If you ask me, saying this card is situational, given how proactive it is with catapults and other cards, as well as how much choice it gives you, is saying lightning is situational, or fractal.



Who in their right mind would decide not to use an ability that will delay a creature for six rounds and 100% kill another one?
You have to be beyond dumb. Why would you freeze if you can freeze and shockwave?
Also, what "other cards"?

Who would use the UPPED one to kill anything? OD and LS? Make your opponent stronger before killing it?
Repeated OD uses or LS uses are meaningless and they actually counteract each other since they deny the current ability.

What I bolded - That's what's gonna happen.

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Re: Spellslinger Tower | Spellslinger Spire https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54897.msg1143895#msg1143895
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 06:48:14 pm »
Notice how much it takes to actually use the freeze/shockwave combo?
4 of an off-element element to get the card out, then a turn of it not being deflagged, then 6 quanta of three different elements.
Meanwhile, lightning or basilisk can pretty much end a creature forever for just 2 of a single quanta, and the only real counter to those things that this card doesn't have is a well timed silence, as opposed to PC and the fact you can clearly see it coming.

As pointed out, quartets and trios are unstable. Is a slightly harder way of killing a creature worth the quartet?

 

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