Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: odideph on July 27, 2012, 10:30:01 am

Title: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: odideph on July 27, 2012, 10:30:01 am

This series is based on the Chain mechanism, as theorized and described in the Idea Factory few months ago:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37282.0.html

Each element of the game will eventually have its own Chain card, here are the ones i've made so far:  :death :fire :life :light :water :underworld
(They are in different states of artwork quality and balance right now but that will be made consistent later on)


For details on how any specific Chain works, click on its name above it.


The cost calculating method (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42245.msg525560.html#msg525560) (not yet applied to some cards of this series)

Quote

[...] it should look:
-clearly overpriced for 1 use (no Chain)
-very slightly overpriced for 3 uses in a turn
-pretty cost-efficient for 4 and even more for 5 uses in a turn
-incredibly strong for a full 6-Chain.

Chain of Death (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42235.msg525411.html#msg525411)

(http://i.imgur.com/sfqf2.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/d3Zxs.png)
NAME: Chain of Death ELEMENT: Death COST: 3 :death TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Inflict 1 poison damage to your enemy. Chain: playing this again in the same turn doubles the effect.	NAME: Chain of Death ELEMENT: Death COST: 2 :death TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Inflict 1 poison damage to your enemy. Chain: playing this again in the same turn doubles the effect.

Chain of Fire (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42232.msg525383.html#msg525383)

(http://i.imgur.com/zCn6e.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/Hrsnt.png)
NAME: Chain of Fire ELEMENT: Fire COST: 12 :fire TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deal 1 damage to all enemy creatures. Chain: cast this spell again in the same turn to get double the previous effect.	NAME: Chain of Fire ELEMENT: Fire COST: 10 :fire TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deal 1 damage to all enemy creatures. Chain: cast this spell again in the same turn to get double the previous effect.

Chain of Life (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42236.msg525436.html#msg525436)

(http://i.imgur.com/Iyvui.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/3Deh3.png)
NAME: Chain of Life ELEMENT: Life COST: 11 :life TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Your creatures get +1|+1. Chain: cast this spell again in the same turn to get double the previous effect.	NAME: Chain of Life ELEMENT: Life COST: 9 :life TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Your creatures get +1|+1. Chain: cast this spell again in the same turn to get double the previous effect.

Chain of Light (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42260.msg525781.html#msg525781)

(http://i.imgur.com/5rWvd.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/s71ta.png)
NAME: Chain of Light ELEMENT: Light COST: 5 :light TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Your strongest creature gets +2|+2. Chain: playing this again in the same turn doubles the effect.	NAME: Great Chain of Light ELEMENT: Light COST: 6 :light TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Your strongest creature gets +3|+3. Chain: playing this again in the same turn doubles the effect.

Chain of Water (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42245.msg525548.html#msg525548)

(http://i.imgur.com/FrZvK.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/OAwUR.png)
NAME: Chain of Water ELEMENT: Water COST: 5 :water TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Engulf a random enemy pillar/pendulum. Chain: cast this again in the same turn for increasingly strong effect.	NAME: Chain of Water ELEMENT: Water COST: 4 :water TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Engulf a random enemy pillar/pendulum. Chain: cast this again in the same turn for increasingly strong effect.

Chain of Elements (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42268.msg525905.html#msg525905)

(http://i.imgur.com/sJFWJ.png)	(http://i.imgur.com/htFc5.png)
NAME: Chain of Elements ELEMENT: Other COST: 12 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Gain 2 quanta. Draw your next Chain. Chain: play this again this turn for double quanta gain.	NAME: Great Chain of Elements ELEMENT: Other COST: 15 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Gain 3 quanta. Draw your next Chain. Chain: play this again this turn for double quanta gain.

Here's an example to understand the Chain mechanism, from the "Notes" of  Chain of Light:

Quote

Example:
1) I have a Photon and an Armagio. I cast Chain of Light. Armagio gets a +2|+2 bonus to stats because he's the strongest (same attack, but more HP).
2) The turn after, i cast Chain of Light again. Armagio get another +2|+2 bonus.
3) This time i play 2 other Chains of Light in the same turn as the previous one. Armagio gets an additional +4|+4, and another additional +8|+8 (total this turn: +14|+14 bonus stats).
4) Next turn, i play Chain of Light again: Armagio gets a +2|+2 bonus.

For reference, maximum bonus you can apply with this (all 6 Chains in the same turn) is : 2 +4 +8 +16 +32 +64 = +126|+126 (unupped) or +189|+189 (upped).

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: blarp on July 28, 2012, 12:46:53 am

cool, but impractical. also I hope you mean add a poison counter.

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: OdinVanguard on July 28, 2012, 12:50:15 am

Chain of elements is just too expensive to be practical I think. Maybe make it a :time or :entropy spell and lower the cost?

Now that I look at it, most of the others are probably too high cost as well.

Consider fire:
cost dmg cards
12   1      1
24   2      2
36   4      3
48   8      4
60   16    5
72   32    6

Unless you're willing to shell out 60 :fire , you're better off just using RoF ...
I'd say aim for balancing these against a chain length of 3 or 4 and comparing to other card types.

E.g. RoF - 3 cards = 21 quanta, 9 damage (round to 8 if you're doubling)
So make this card cost say 5 or 6 :fire quanta each and deal 2 damage as a base you should be good. You would then have
Chain of Fire         Rain of Fire
cost dmg cards     cost  dmg   cards
5     2      1           7     3        1
10   4      2           14    6       2
15   8      3           21    9       3
20   16    4           28    12      4
25   32    5           35    15      5
30   64    6           42    18      6
(note: after 12 or so damage, you will kill the majority of creatures anyway so the high damage is a moot point since players aren't affected)

Without serious card drawing potential, its really tricky to get more than 3 of a card stocked up in hand at one time...
Further, at 5 or 6 card combo levels, you can start pulling off OTK's so having them become very powerful at 5 or 6 in a chain is fairly reasonable

Try running this series past OldTrees in his thread  Ask the Idea Guru (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.html)
He's very good at helping with analyzing and balancing for cool and exotic concepts.

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: blarp on July 28, 2012, 12:51:17 am

Quote from: blarp on July 28, 2012, 12:47:42 am

okay so isn't there another one of these already posted?

sorry internet lagged........ fail :P

Do the chains count with others from a different element or can only 1 element type be chained?

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: odideph on July 28, 2012, 08:07:31 am

The Chain of Death adds a poison counter, yeah. Sorry if the wording wasn't clear.

Only the Chain of Elements affects Chains from other elements, by drawing them. Other than that, there is only a thematic link between Chains of different elements.



Chain of Fire is one of the unbalanced ones at the moment, right. I will correct that in a very similar way to what OdinVanguard has said.
I have Chain cost guidelines (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42245.msg525560.html#msg525560) that i figured out during the making of the series, but i have only applied them to  :light and :death so far. Other chains will be rebalanced accordingly.

EDIT: @OdinVanguard: There is a detail you missed however. Your example table for balancing Chain of Fire compared to Rain of Fire, calculates total damage dealt by all cards for Rain, but only counts damage dealt by one card for Chain. You might want to look at the example top of the thread to see exactly what i mean.
Nonetheless, your balancing idea is still valid, and quite in accordance with my guidelines.

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: A_Purple_Panda on July 28, 2012, 10:35:28 am

Chain of fire is too expensive for only 1damage imo. I get it that u're supposed to chain them. But especially if u gotta play a bunch of em in one turn, 12(10 upped) quanta is way too much of a cost for a "not so gamebreaking" effect. Same with chain of elements, although i do like the synergy with the other chains and the combos it would allow.

Title: Re: Series: Elemental Chains
Post by: odideph on July 28, 2012, 11:09:32 am

Quote from: A_Purple_Panda on July 28, 2012, 10:35:28 am

Chain of fire is too expensive for only 1damage imo. I get it that u're supposed to chain them. But especially if u gotta play a bunch of em in one turn, 12(10 upped) quanta is way too much of a cost for a "not so gamebreaking" effect. Same with chain of elements, although i do like the synergy with the other chains and the combos it would allow.

Indeed, Chain of Fire will be updated soon.
Chain of Elements however, i spent quite some time doing the maths before presenting it, and it's probably one of the most accurately priced Chains right now, alongside  :death and  :light. Details can be found in its discussion.