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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: TimerClock14 on November 22, 2010, 10:00:12 pm

Title: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on November 22, 2010, 10:00:12 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd108067/Reverse_fractal_unupped.png)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd108068/Reverse_fractal_upped.png)
NAME:
Reverse Fractal
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|5
TEXT:
Generate 1 :entropy and 1 :aether per turn. :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Add 1 counter to this card.
NAME:
Reverse Fractal
ELEMENT:
Entropy
COST:
3 :entropy
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|7
TEXT:
Generate 1 :entropy and 1 :aether per turn. :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Add 1 counter to this card.
ART:
Tyrant Wave (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=entropy#/d1djxx2) (+ resizing by TimerClock14)
IDEA:
TimerClock14 + ddevans96
NOTES:
UPDATED, PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING:
As long as Reverse Fractal stays in play AND has a counter on it, your opponent cannot play more than one creature per turn. Please also note that this card loses one counter at the beginning of your turn.
A special thanks to Old Trees for his expert balancing advice :D
EDIT: added some stuff for accuracy
cannot become immaterial
SERIES:
TimerClock's Para-Elemental Creature Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13822.0.html)
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: joebob777 on November 23, 2010, 03:33:41 pm
how about you change the name to immortal chaos or something like that
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: $$$man on November 23, 2010, 03:35:39 pm
I was about to come here and say
"YESS GO TO FORGE NOOOWWWWW."
Then I realized that it didn't destroy all copies of cards in opponents hand :(
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Malignant on November 23, 2010, 04:04:30 pm
I was about to come here and say
"YESS GO TO FORGE NOOOWWWWW."
Then I realized that it didn't destroy all copies of cards in opponents hand :(
Why Timer why....
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on November 23, 2010, 07:42:53 pm
i chose the name based on the art okay!? It will be changed in the near future but for now, plz just post secondary abilities and/or possible names for the card.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TheCrazyMango on November 23, 2010, 09:09:52 pm
i think i would call it wormhole...
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Hyroen on November 23, 2010, 09:21:38 pm
Maybe call it Gamma Ray?
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on November 23, 2010, 09:22:35 pm
i think i should give it the abilities "Vex" and "Dispel" and would go a little something like this:
unupped- :entropy :entropy :entropy Vex: Three counters are added to this card. Until those counters reach zero, fractal cannot be used.
upped- :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Four counters are added to this card. Until those counters reach zero, fractal cannot be used.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: OldTrees on November 23, 2010, 09:30:03 pm
that would be too cheap of a permanent fractal lockdown.

Maybe
This card starts with 3|4 counters and loses 1 per turn. Fractal cannot be cast while a counter remains on this card.


Remember the secondary effects only have 2|3 quanta value to play around with. (from our cloud discussion)
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on November 23, 2010, 09:32:56 pm
that would be too cheap of a permanent fractal lockdown.

Maybe
This card starts with 3|4 counters and loses 1 per turn. Fractal cannot be cast while a counter remains on this card.


Remember the secondary effects only have 2|3 quanta value to play around with. (from our cloud discussion)
I like it! And yea, I remembered that discussion as soon as I saw your name lol. I will update the card with this new ability very soon, probably later today or sometime tomorrow since I get out of school early.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: ddevans96 on November 23, 2010, 11:02:55 pm
i think i should give it the abilities "Vex" and "Dispel" and would go a little something like this:
unupped- :entropy :entropy :entropy Vex: Three counters are added to this card. Until those counters reach zero, fractal cannot be used.
upped- :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Four counters are added to this card. Until those counters reach zero, fractal cannot be used.
I have an idea for how you could work in an anti-fractal without being too overpowered:

 :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Add 1 counter. Your opponent can only play one creature per turn while there is a counter on this card. Lose one counter every turn.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: OldTrees on November 24, 2010, 12:01:27 am
I like ddevans secondary idea provided the counters are reduced by 1 per turn at the beginning of the turn.


To answer the poll in more detail:
I have been reviewing all the creatures in the game to improve Phantom Fox's formula.

Using the improvements
Balanced Cost for a para elemental is
Unupped: 0 (attack) +0 (0<HP<6) +1 (Generate 1 quanta) +1 (Generate 1 quanta) -1 (Cross element quanta) +X (Secondary skill value) = 3
Unupped: 0 (attack) +0 (5<HP<8] +1 (Generate 1 quanta) +1 (Generate 1 quanta) -1 (Cross element quanta) +X (Secondary skill value) -1 (upgrade) = 3

X=2
So all para elementals should have a secondary worth 2 quanta. (With the notable exception of some elements but they would just get a 3 quanta skill. [ :aether :fire :life :light])
So if all the skills are worth 2.5 or so then it would be uniform.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: ddevans96 on November 24, 2010, 12:05:18 am
I like ddevans secondary idea provided the counters are reduced by 1 per turn at the beginning of the turn.
Yes, I should mention that. But Sundial and Phase Shield both have the same concept of reducing counters at the end of the turn, so I thought that was given :P
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: OldTrees on November 24, 2010, 12:22:48 am
Sundial and D Shield have doom clocks that count down. They do not have counters per say. Counters, unless otherwise stated, might be permanent.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: ddevans96 on November 24, 2010, 12:23:38 am
Sundial and D Shield have doom clocks that count down. They do not have counters per say. Counters, unless otherwise stated, might be permanent.
Hm. Good point. I'll add that then.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on November 24, 2010, 01:56:28 am
I like where you guys are going with this, but can you condense it and give me what you want on the card in a description that will fit?
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: karthikking on November 24, 2010, 02:06:52 am
I was like "YYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!", then I was crestfallen, and now I am happy again :D
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on December 01, 2010, 03:30:38 am
NEW ABILITY IN DEVELOPMENT, AND YES, IT WILL AFFECT FRACTAL
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on December 04, 2010, 10:41:25 pm
new ability finished!
post away~
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Kuroaitou on December 06, 2010, 03:40:39 am
CURATOR COMMENT
-Please provide a link to the artwork if possible (unless TyrantWave is a member on this forum...)
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on December 06, 2010, 03:42:37 am
done
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: QuantumT on January 20, 2011, 08:53:58 am
The card itself needs to have some indication of what it actually does, not just the mechanics about keeping it in play. To get more room on the card so that you can add it, just remove the quanta generation part and lower the cost of the ability by 1.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: YoYoBro on January 20, 2011, 01:30:51 pm
I agree, felt a bit confused when I first read the card's text.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: OldTrees on January 20, 2011, 03:20:29 pm
"Generate  :entropy :aether per turn.
 :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Add 1 counter to this card. Counters hinder creature summoning."
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: doublecross on January 20, 2011, 03:26:45 pm
I think it should have a repeatable ability like photosynthesis for adding counters, but whenever your opponent pays to summon a card (after 1 has already been summoned that turn) , the summon fails, they keep the card, but a counter goes away.


The reason I said "pays to summon a card" is to stop them from being able to beat it with RoL alone.


That way, it essentially is a race between your entropy production and their production of whatever the element is they are trying to multiple summon.  That way, you can't guarantee that this lasts a set number of turns by making it immaterial, and both players can influence how long it lasts.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: YoYoBro on January 20, 2011, 08:00:02 pm
Doublecross' suggestions are, as always, good. Imo, that would be a worthty tweak. But it'd be hard to code, I think.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 20, 2011, 10:08:20 pm
"Generate  :entropy :aether per turn.
 :entropy :entropy :entropy Dispel: Add 1 counter to this card. Counters hinder creature summoning."
I think it should have a repeatable ability like photosynthesis for adding counters, but whenever your opponent pays to summon a card (after 1 has already been summoned that turn) , the summon fails, they keep the card, but a counter goes away.


The reason I said "pays to summon a card" is to stop them from being able to beat it with RoL alone.


That way, it essentially is a race between your entropy production and their production of whatever the element is they are trying to multiple summon.  That way, you can't guarantee that this lasts a set number of turns by making it immaterial, and both players can influence how long it lasts.
First: Got any suggestions to compress that doublecross? I love your suggestion, and now I must have it as this card's new mechanic :D

I quoted OldTrees's post as an example, because that might work for what doublecross suggested as well, just describe what 'hinder' means in the notes.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: BluePriest on January 21, 2011, 12:13:07 am
Its important for this card to actually say "Only 1 creature can be summoned at a time". Just "hinders summoning" could mean way too many things.

As long as there is a counter on this card, only 1 creature can be summoned a turn.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: doublecross on January 21, 2011, 01:32:52 am
Perhaps "Hinders your opponent's ability to summon multiple monsters per turn"
Then, explain the mechanic in the notes.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 21, 2011, 01:37:07 am
The card itself needs to have some indication of what it actually does, not just the mechanics about keeping it in play. To get more room on the card so that you can add it, just remove the quanta generation part and lower the cost of the ability by 1.
I'd just like to note here that the quanta generation part is the main ability for these cards, not the secondary. If it did not have the quanta generation, it'd be just another counter to fractal, nor a part of my series.

Quote from: doublecross
Perhaps "Hinders your opponent's ability to summon multiple monsters per turn"
Then, explain the mechanic in the notes.
Sounds good. I'll start reworking the card ASAP.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Flayne on January 21, 2011, 01:48:49 am
I reckon this would be a much better counter to Fractal than nightmare,

i have a few name suggestions:

Delimitation
Deadline
Breaking Point
Maximum Breaker


ps: imo Delimitation sounds the best.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: QuantumT on January 21, 2011, 02:36:48 am
The card itself needs to have some indication of what it actually does, not just the mechanics about keeping it in play. To get more room on the card so that you can add it, just remove the quanta generation part and lower the cost of the ability by 1.
I'd just like to note here that the quanta generation part is the main ability for these cards, not the secondary. If it did not have the quanta generation, it'd be just another counter to fractal, nor a part of my series.
It's just odd because it has the ability to add counters to itself, but no indication of what the counters even do.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: doublecross on January 21, 2011, 02:39:26 am
Or, if you want to keep the generate part, you could change it to Generates  :aether :entropy
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 21, 2011, 03:02:39 am
Or, if you want to keep the generate part, you could change it to Generates  :aether :entropy
that works too
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: YoYoBro on January 22, 2011, 02:20:21 pm
Hm, are you sure that  :entropy :aether fits? I think you could totally remove the generator part to add something else instead..
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: BluePriest on January 22, 2011, 04:50:50 pm
I dont know if I like this card too much. It will completely change the metagame if implemented. Being able to play only 1 monster a turn completely ruins rush decks. Although I agree rush decks need to be nerfed, I feel this is a really bad way to go about it. More Mass CC is a much better  solution to both fractal AND rush decks.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 23, 2011, 02:06:39 am
I dont know if I like this card too much. It will completely change the metagame if implemented. Being able to play only 1 monster a turn completely ruins rush decks. Although I agree rush decks need to be nerfed, I feel this is a really bad way to go about it. More Mass CC is a much better  solution to both fractal AND rush decks.
this will also nerf the so-called OP mitosis.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: BluePriest on January 23, 2011, 02:11:19 am
I dont know if I like this card too much. It will completely change the metagame if implemented. Being able to play only 1 monster a turn completely ruins rush decks. Although I agree rush decks need to be nerfed, I feel this is a really bad way to go about it. More Mass CC is a much better  solution to both fractal AND rush decks.
this will also nerf the so-called OP mitosis.
Itll completely change the game. No one card should be able to do that. Its just wrong. Sure, you can explode it, but you can also PA it. Considering PA only takes 1  :earth it wouldnt be hard at all.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 23, 2011, 03:58:06 am
I dont know if I like this card too much. It will completely change the metagame if implemented. Being able to play only 1 monster a turn completely ruins rush decks. Although I agree rush decks need to be nerfed, I feel this is a really bad way to go about it. More Mass CC is a much better  solution to both fractal AND rush decks.
this will also nerf the so-called OP mitosis.
Itll completely change the game. No one card should be able to do that. Its just wrong. Sure, you can explode it, but you can also PA it. Considering PA only takes 1  :earth it wouldnt be hard at all.
umm.....what?
you do realize this is a creature not a permanent, right?
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 23, 2011, 04:03:56 am
i'm going to add "cannot become immaterial to the notes as well.
thic card is too easily quinted because it prodyuces :aether quantum as well as :entropy quantum
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: BluePriest on January 23, 2011, 04:40:09 am
I dont know if I like this card too much. It will completely change the metagame if implemented. Being able to play only 1 monster a turn completely ruins rush decks. Although I agree rush decks need to be nerfed, I feel this is a really bad way to go about it. More Mass CC is a much better  solution to both fractal AND rush decks.
this will also nerf the so-called OP mitosis.
Itll completely change the game. No one card should be able to do that. Its just wrong. Sure, you can explode it, but you can also PA it. Considering PA only takes 1  :earth it wouldnt be hard at all.
umm.....what?
you do realize this is a creature not a permanent, right?
doh....
i'm going to add "cannot become immaterial to the notes as well.
thic card is too easily quinted because it prodyuces :aether quantum as well as :entropy quantum
imo thats just another reason to not really like it... sorry, im not trying to be hard on your card lol. I just dont like special circumstance cards. Not making certain cards effect it just seems like a stretch to me. I think Im going to find a card of yours i really like since I feel so bad/
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 23, 2011, 02:44:46 pm
*snip*
i'm going to add "cannot become immaterial to the notes as well.
thic card is too easily quinted because it prodyuces :aether quantum as well as :entropy quantum
imo thats just another reason to not really like it... sorry, im not trying to be hard on your card lol. I just dont like special circumstance cards. Not making certain cards effect it just seems like a stretch to me. I think Im going to find a card of yours i really like since I feel so bad/
don't worry, when it comes to cards, I'm as hard as a rock. I might change the entire theme of this card, actually, because fractal already got a nerf, and it doesn't need another one. I think I'll change it from :entropy :aether to :entropy :darkness and have kuro remove it from the polls....unless it goes to the archive first. We'll be needing a new name for it as well, I'll need to contact the artist again to see if he's okay with the changes as well.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Kuroaitou on January 23, 2011, 02:59:20 pm
Reverse Fractal has now been removed from the polls and sent back to the Smithy section.
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: TimerClock14 on January 23, 2011, 03:12:05 pm
Reverse Fractal has now been removed from the polls and sent back to the Smithy section.
thanks!
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Bieber4Ever98 on January 23, 2011, 03:13:25 pm
How did this get here ? Why ?
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Kuroaitou on January 23, 2011, 03:16:18 pm
How did this get here ? Why ?
TimerClock14 personally requested for his idea to be removed from the Crucible. In most cases, I usually wait until the poll closes (if the card owner doesn't want it to be moved to the Archive for some reason), but because the poll is going to take another month, I figure I would abide by Timer's decision to have it removed from the Level 1 section immediately rather than have it stick in there as a weird card concept. ^^;
Title: Re: Reverse Fractal | Reverse Fractal
Post by: Bieber4Ever98 on January 23, 2011, 03:27:52 pm
TimerClock14 personally requested for his idea to be removed from the Crucible. In most cases, I usually wait until the poll closes (if the card owner doesn't want it to be moved to the Archive for some reason), but because the poll is going to take another month, I figure I would abide by Timer's decision to have it removed from the Level 1 section immediately rather than have it stick in there as a weird card concept. ^^;
Ok, thx for your reply.  :)
blarg: ddevans96,Old Trees