Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: timetock on February 09, 2014, 09:15:54 am

Title: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: timetock on February 09, 2014, 09:15:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/1IXOYxo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZGJWJQz.png)
NAME:
Reflection
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
6 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All Immortal creatures become non-immortal. All creatures without Immortality gain new ability: Immaterial
NAME:
Inverse
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
5 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All Immortal creatures become non-immortal. All creatures without Immortality gain new ability: Immaterial

ART:
none
IDEA:
timetock
NOTES:
A mass Immaterial device - Alternatively de-immortalizes all imortal creatures (All creatures on the field).
SoW creatures also lose their immortality/spell damage.

Uh, I have no idea what I'm doing. Someone halp pls
Anyways, thoughts? Love suggestions and comments.

SERIES:

Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: dawn to dusk on February 09, 2014, 09:26:53 am
how would this work with SoW? would it lose the ability to deal spell damage?

also, i assume this affects both sides
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: timetock on February 09, 2014, 09:38:02 am
Yea both sides.

I would say they should lose the SoW buff.
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: ChemMan13 on February 09, 2014, 10:05:57 pm
So this card targets immortals, sounds like a non controversial card.  :P Sadly I cannot give this card a positive vote as immaterial is meant to be permanent; it currently can not and in my opinion should not ever be tampered with (So yes, I am not too happy about the card SoW, but we have to live with it). This card basically removes Aether's most prominent feature that being immortality and its resistance to CC.
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: timetock on February 10, 2014, 01:10:47 am
eh so immortality shouldn't be tampered. Sigh. Looks like the only way to kill immortals is skull shield/fire shield.
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 10, 2014, 03:49:37 am
Quote from: timetock on February 10, 2014, 01:10:47 am
eh so immortality shouldn't be tampered. Sigh. Looks like the only way to kill immortals is skull shield/fire shield.
Immortality is a key mechanic for :aether and has been a hot button since I can remember.

Thats not to say that any card that tampers with it is doomed to fail, but you will get a lot of controversy if you do.

For instance,
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/level-3-armory/cursed-sword-divine-slayer/

Which I helped make the art for *grin* made it all the way to the armory and it has, as far as I can tell, received equal parts praise and derision for its ability to remove immaterial status.

Removing immaterial has come up, as several posters noted, many times before so being original about it is going to be tricky... in the case of the card above though, it has risen to the armory now despite this fact... Apparently there are enough people who DO want to see this that it is a viable mechanic to propose...

So, you can do it... But, you will have a lot of work cut out for you and will likely receive a lot of flak even if the card is, otherwise, the best card ever.
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: timetock on February 10, 2014, 04:16:02 am
I didn't want it to be useless if the opponent doesn't have immortal creatures, so I gave it an effect that could potentially make all creatures on the field immortal. Curiously no one has brought it up yet - I thought someone would see this and mention crimson dragons or something.
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: ChemMan13 on February 10, 2014, 04:47:00 pm
I did see that effect, and with this card you could actually fractal phase dragons than play another reflection to make them immaterial again. As to Odin's last post, I think that them main reason that the card made it that high up in the crucible is that cards can only go up. For voting, you vote for a card(s) that you like, not ones that you dislike. It just seems like a lot of people are angry about the status of immortality,  are able to voice this opinion by voting cards up in the crucible. On the other hand, there is a lot smaller outlet for people who dislike a card proposal to voice their opinion.
One a side note, If this card just added immortality, then it might be a bit strong. Imagine a few of these in a RoL Hope deck, you would have a nigh invincible army of RoL as long as you hold onto at least one copy of the card to continue fractaling. 
Title: Re: Reflection|Inverse
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 10, 2014, 07:29:24 pm
Quote from: ChemMan13 on February 10, 2014, 04:47:00 pm
I did see that effect, and with this card you could actually fractal phase dragons than play another reflection to make them immaterial again. As to Odin's last post, I think that them main reason that the card made it that high up in the crucible is that cards can only go up. For voting, you vote for a card(s) that you like, not ones that you dislike. It just seems like a lot of people are angry about the status of immortality,  are able to voice this opinion by voting cards up in the crucible. On the other hand, there is a lot smaller outlet for people who dislike a card proposal to voice their opinion.
One a side note, If this card just added immortality, then it might be a bit strong. Imagine a few of these in a RoL Hope deck, you would have a nigh invincible army of RoL as long as you hold onto at least one copy of the card to continue fractaling.
Yes, it has been mentioned many times that the CIA polls could use an overhaul... of course that would require getting enough people with the time, energy, and motivation to do so, which is not easy considering everyone is here on a volunteer basis...

That being said, it is true that cards can not be demoted levels. However, the fact that the card did make it to level 3 says that there are, at the very least, enough people that want it that it was able to
1) Keep a steady enough stream of votes to not get archived
2) Eventually get enough votes to rise past all its competitors and advance 2 times.

I'm not saying that necessarily makes it the best card ever, but it does say that there are a fairly significant amount of forum members who actually want to see something like that make it into the game.

In my opinion, removal of immaterial status shouldn't be a flat out impossibility, but there needs to be some MAJOR counterbalancing to doing so. Otherwise you will cripple one of the core balancing mechanics for a lot of cards... not to mention the aether element as a whole which relys on it to make its creatures "competitive".

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you are going to make a card that tampers with immortal status, make sure you consider all the angles. Theres a big call for something that can do so, but it needs to be very very well thought out and balanced.

This card just flat out swaps immaterial status. That's almost certainly a bad idea unless there is something to keep it from being abused, which could be done far too easily as it stands now.... Come to think of it, I believe that this card has been proposed before (not just similar but practically exactly the same). I will try to find the link so you can refer to it.

If you still want to go forward with manipulating immaterial status, have a look through relevant design theory topics. The pros and cons get discussed alot. You won't be able to make everyone happy, but I do think there is potential for a cool and unique card idea if you take your time and do it well.

-Best of luck
blarg: