Recurrence | Eternal Recurrence

[Mntoothpick]

NAME: Recurrence ELEMENT: Time COST: 10 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: ABILITY: Any creature killed is returned to the owners hand.  Last 3 turns.	NAME: Eternal Recurrence ELEMENT: Time COST: 12 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: ABILITY: Any Creature killed is returned to the owners hand.

ART: Photographs by Tore Simonsen IDEA: Card by Tore Simonsen NOTES: The idea behind the card is to create a permanent that works like eternity on a mass scale.  It works globally for both players.  It would help in situations where a player faces a fire shield or caraprice.  It probably favors decks with lower casting cost creatures as the players will still have to pay to recast their creatures.   The card does no damage, so it is different from eternity.  The high casting cost means that rewind would still be better in situations where players do not intend to have many creatures on the field or do not want their opponent to benefit. SERIES: ***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***

The photographs I used were taken by me while I was vacating in Norway a few years ago.

[Kuroaitou]

...

I'm not sure why the card images are not showing up in the preview.  I could right click open them in a new tab.

The locations for the images are here:

http://1541.freehostia.com/ElementsCardsDesign/recurrencesky.png

http://1541.freehostia.com/ElementsCardsDesign/recurrencewater.png

Try using Image Play (http://imageplay.net/) to upload your pictures. That freehostia site doesn't seem to make much sense to me, and the links you provided go to the main page, not to the actual pictures themselves.

Otherwise - I like new Time ideas. But the 'mass rewind' idea has also been somewhat suggested before (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5449.0.html), and your upgraded card (if protected) means that no creature can be killed on the field. Just rewound back in the deck. 


Anyway, once you upload the picture, make sure you ALSO do the following as well:
-Add the ' ' symbol after the card's cost in the 'COST' section of the table
-Provide a direct link to the photo you used if the art isn't your own (by direct link, if the curator would click on it, it would directly bring him to the page where the artist's picture/work is on for him to see if it's copyrighted or not
-Fix the title of this thread to "Recurrence | Eternal Recurrence" (no quotations needed). The | symbol (divider) is the correct formatting for separating card idea names, not a slash (/)

[Bloodshadow]

This + Fractal Sparks.

[Mntoothpick]

I guess the card says hand...hmmm....

Even with a fractal spark though, you would have to draw the cards again.  Probably pair it with hourglass, golden nymph, sundial, precognition to accelerate the drawing then...  Maybe I should say deck.

Hand would be interesting.  Deck would also be interesting...

[jmdt]

This + Fractal Sparks.

Yep this card has serious OP potential with fractal sparks and armaggio's since time/gravity have synergy already.

[Mntoothpick]

I think you can only play one gravity pull at a time so the Armagio OP thing on that would be reduced. 

One thing I don't know:  if Elements the Game can put more than 8 cards in the hand.  If it can't then placing them in hand might not work, unless it place first cards in hand like fractal and later cards in deck.

More thoughts on Card:

In any case, if it limited to 8 cards in hand:

1.  Could be first sent to graveyard up to 8 in hand, reducing cards power.
2.  Could be mixed first up to 8 in hand, rest to deck, reducing cards power.

If it deck:

1.  People might not want to draw creatures for next few rounds, so could be mixed blessing.
2.  Still takes time to draw and cast cards.

Also remember its a global effect so it applies to BOTH players.

[stinky472]

I think the card would be very interesting for sure and would change the game dynamic considerably when played. The eternal version worries me a lot more than the non-upped version since it would be easy to design a deck for which one can play a protected eternal recurrence and put the other player at a complete disadvantage for the entire duration of the game. Perhaps it should stick to 3 turns but just be a little cheaper to play when upgraded.

Imagine this with sparks/BoLs and a bone wall for a never ending bone wall that just grows and grows without the possibility of ever decking out. It would make for the most annoying stall deck ever and people without momentum would be completely helpless against it unless they can spam creatures twice as fast as you can play sparks/BoLs and without dying from the considerable damage being dealt from multiple sparks/BoLs every turn in the meantime.

I also don't think the creature should return to the opponent's hand like fractal, but rather work like a rewind (you have to draw it next turn and use hourglass if multiple creatures die to get them back on the following turn or wait multiple turns). This way, it would at least require hourglasses in combination to be really effective and that would guzzle a lot of time normally to prevent it from becoming too OP. Then at least the player can counter a protected recurrence by targeting hourglasses and/or pillars/towers or use denial. I still think it shouldn't last more than 3 turns though, as it would already be quite powerful that way by allowing you to grow a massive bone wall in a few turns, e.g., or grow a massive vulture or generate many skellies (I think death has the best synergy with this card and sparks/BoLs)

[Mantriel]

Recurrence is great, but eternal recurrence would change the Meta-game to drastically.

I suggest the upgraded version would be the same card (lasts 3 turns), but for 7

[Retribution]

Suggestion:

Any creature with a cost goes back to their owner's hand upon dying.

OR

Any creature with more than ____ HP goes back to their owner's hand upon dying.

[Mntoothpick]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I'm not sure if the eternal recurrence card is as OP as people might think.

Regarding the duration, I called the card eternal recurrence because I wanted it to be eternal.  (Of course, a simple deflag will eliminate the permanent as would pulverizer like any permanent.  There seems to be no reason to steal the card though.)   

I'm not sure how much it would change the metagame in some respects.  There are plenty of ways to control creatures without killing them, for example freezing, congealing, basilik blood.  So it might place greater emphasis on using those kinds of cards when you are confronted with eternal recurrence.  A permafrost shield is an excellent non-lethal way of reducing exposure also or other non-lethal shield.

Obviously devouring would be much less important in a round with an eternal recurrence, but of course, you could build up an oty by devouring your own creatures and recasting them if you thought that was effective.

Since it is global, it benefits both players meaning that it is a plus and a minus.  It could allow players to build decks using fewer creatures under the assumption they could recast the ones they had if they died.

I've also been playing around with a rainbowed mummy/eternity deck using 7 quanta pillars and 6 supernovas.  (Time/Death mix)  It takes a long time to get enough time quantas up to get the eternity out, cast the rewind on the mummy and then even longer to get a scarab into play.  Time seems quite hard to come by in rainbow decks. (Though not as hard as entropy).  A 12 time casting cost is pretty high in a rainbow deck.  If you went with a time deck or time mixed deck, that would obviously be easier to meet.

Logistically, it appears that the most that would be possible would be a mixed fill your hand with as many as you can and rest to deck.  The limit on cards appears to be 8... If you exceeded the 8 card in hand limit somehow and did not have the quanta to cast, you would have to discard the cards (this would be interesting as well). 

The cards could also all go back to the deck, but everyone knows that can be very problematic, because you can't get to your other cards then.  Might want an hourglass then.

I'm glad the card is seen as changing the game a bit, since otherwise, what would be the point of the suggestion?   

To really understand the effects of the card it would have to be tested.  I certainly think the cards are worth testing.