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Re: Quantum Soldier | Quantum Warrior https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21218.msg277027#msg277027
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2011, 02:23:20 pm »
I understand that you are new to balancing cards and even newer to design theory.
Balance in strategy games isnt always a math equation. tic tac toe and chess arnt for everyone.
Tic Tac Toe actually was solved a long time ago. 159287354 on a numeric keypad is the moves that are most likely to result in victory. If both plays follow the rule it ends in a tie as you would expect for an extremely defensive game with a short timer. Chess is played by computers using position evaluating formulas and probability.
almost all games like this have a foundation in some sort. that becomes apprent fairly quickly. but thats not all its about. and cant always make cards that like that. Games have to be dynamic and thats where you start breaking rules.
Breaking rules (Fractal) is indeed good. That is adding new things to the curve. Going off the curve is making a contradiction in the game.
ive already had a look at that thread in your signature. When I hear you say things like "Out of the 136+ creatures analyzed only 19 did not match the formula." I cant help but think your guys are doing it wrong. theres like 80 some creatures in the game. not counting animated weapons. your comparing upgrade variables so if 19 dont match thats like 20-25%. (you shouldnt even really be counting cards like the nymphs). and thats ignoring that the game should really be mainly balanced of the upgraded or strictly better cards. then you should have the creatures in clusters based off their in game role, element, and element role.

It includes both unupped and upgraded cards. But excluded nymphs because they were not around long enough for the community to have a good enough judgement on their balance and most of them are never upgraded because it is not worth the electrum compared to other cards.
It is still ~1/7 of creatures that did not fit the pattern but if every creature fit then it would be inaccurate because some creatures just are Underpowered or Overpowered.
PS: If the unupped are balanced to a curve (and if you read my thread) then you would see that the upgraded are balanced on a curve 1.5 quanta higher. (aka upgraded>unupped by 1.5 quanta usually)
I actually did group similar creatures together initially when calculating the pattern. Specifically I looked as the vanilla (no skills) creatures to determine their pattern an extrapolated from that. I also clumped creatures with similar skills together to determine the effects of variants of a skill (Venom, Dealy Venom, Neurotoxin or Duo costs or Larger Activation costs)

Hey im not trying to take away from the work youve done. I think its probably pretty sound in alot of situations. But it shouldnt just be a snap answer to say oh this doesnt match my CC model. it has to be changed.
It is more: My model claims that this is the case, do you have as strong an answer that can help me tune my theory? So far you have not made such an answer in my eyes but it is the voters that matter not just me.
Back to this thread topic

Im still not convinced that that 2/1 for 2 breaks anything in the game. the more I talk about it the more i think it would be fine in game. Youve thrown some numbers back but no real argument. You cant say a 2/1 for 2 breaks game balance because of parsite and a couple shields (well i wont buy it).
Things can be OP without breaking the game. (Graboid has not broken the game)
or maybe show me the decks that you think would abuse this 2/1 maybe that will convince me.
We are talking about something that is barely OP so it won't have a large effect on the radar but. Also I personally am bad at making decks. To make a good faith effort you would need to improve the deck I present. (I also did not include SoG because it too is OP and would not measure the imbalance of QW):
Life Mark
10x Q Tower
6x Mitosis
6x Quantum Warrior
5x Longsword
4x Animate Weapon

Like what would you propose the the 2/1 cost? 3? cause I dont see where thats going to fit in the game except for maybe fractal/nova combo
Mitosis Other Creature powered by either Quantum Towers or Nova would still work at a 4|5 cost. [See reason why Weapons cannot be targeted by Mitosis]
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Kartsa

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Re: Quantum Soldier | Quantum Warrior https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21218.msg278661#msg278661
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2011, 01:07:56 am »
One more reason why the Q soldiers should be barred from mitosis.

Looks like the topic has taken a life of it's own while I had to fix the PC. Heh.

But anyhow. The term of "construct": Infection, Basilisk Blood and Mitosis, would have to be rigged to something else, as construct as in name just doesn't quite cut it, unless the same is inserted to all other ones fitting the description.

Btw, no fantasy world I have encountered so far has had asexually reproducing golems. They have been the servants of mages, or experiments gone awry.

 

blarg: