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Evil Hamster

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4829#msg4829
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

Perhaps make Ice Bolt freeze 100% for two turns, but raise the cost of Ice Bolt/Lance by one Quantum. Or, another idea, raise the damage from 2 for every 10 to 2 for every 5, or something. =/
That's going the opposite direction it should!

maybe 2 damage for every 15 quantum and freeze for 1 turn.

foyle

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4830#msg4830
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

I'm not so sure it would really be hugely different to do a similar deck with current cards Scaredgirl.  First of all the deck you are hinting towards seems like it would have well over 30 cards (you listed 18 cards so far without any that will dmg them or give you quanta).  So ideally I think you agree this would want it to be trimmed down to 30 cards, and since even with the change in this situation both Sundial (free cost, 2 turn delay for all mobs) and Congeal (1 quanta cost, 4 turn delay for 1 mob) are superior to the Ice Bolt (1 quanta, 2 turn delay for 1 mob), you would want to keep 6 Dials/Congeals and probably would end up minimizing the ice bolts to somewhere between 0-2 anyway.  Squids may or may not be necessary, I just won my first one recently so I haven't tried it out yet -- I do know that I find them quite annoying when Scorpio has them, but that will certainly vary depending on what kind of deck you are playing.  But my overall conclusion was that I had doubts that replacing 1 squid with 0-2 ice bolts that had a 2 round delay would really make a "huge" difference, though that is of course just subjective anyway.
Either way though that doesn't really matter, I agree that 100% chance of 1 round delay is probably better anyway and I think that could be a nice change to make the card more useful.
As to Jellyfish idea about 2 dmg every 5 quanta, this would make the card stronger than even fire bolt in damage alone so that does not make sense.  It needs to do less damage than fire bolt, but have some other somewhat useful function as well.  Currently the side effect is not really useful at all because it is too low of a chance to rely on, so if you want to cast the bolt on a creature that has more HP than you can deal with the bolt, you are better off waiting until your quanta is large enough to kill it with the bolt outright (in which case it doesn't matter if it freezes).  

Evil Hamster

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4831#msg4831
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

Currently the side effect is not really useful at all because it is too low of a chance to rely on, so if you want to cast the bolt on a creature that has more HP than you can deal with the bolt, you are better off waiting until your quanta is large enough to kill it with the bolt outright (in which case it doesn't matter if it freezes).  
Exactly the type of strategic choice the card as it is forces you to make. Do I throw it now and hope I get lucky to freeze the creature or wait a couple turns and kill it outright.

There is a 1/3 chance of it freezing for 3 turns as opposed to a guaranteed one turn freeze. If you're in such a bad position that guaranteed freeze will change the game- it is likely you are probably going to lose anyways! There are cards that can reverse a losing game and turn it around so you're winning- like fire storm. But the situations where even an improved ice bolt would do that are rare.

Kumlekar

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4832#msg4832
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

How bout it freezes for a number of turns equal to your quantums divided by 10.  The remainder would be 1/10th the percentage chance to freeze for an additional turn.  This fits in with the "based on total quanta" design of all the bolt/lance spells.

Lets say I have 39 quanta on the board and the opponent plays a 10/10 something or other.  After playing ice bolt I would have 36 mana left.  The spell would deal (30/10)*2+2 = 8 damage to the creature and freeze for 3 turns with a 60% chance of freezing for an additional turn.  This would give water an extremely powerful method of dealing with creatures later in the game. 

Evil Hamster

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4833#msg4833
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

I like that idea- but take away the damage if it's going to freeze for a longer time. Would turn it into a more powerful freeze.

Kumlekar

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4834#msg4834
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

I think the damage is pretty necessary, unless you make it quanta /5 or something, but that would be pretty over powered...  Or maybe not.  That sounds like it needs some play testing, but it could be pretty nice.

turin

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4835#msg4835
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

I think that turn of freeze must be minimized or it turns into a too powerful card. And about % of freeze depending on quanta: so it will be even more useless to play it when you have poor quanta pool!
I continue to like 100% shorter freeze, or maybe something like 100% freeze for 3 turns, but at the end of each turn the creature has some % (like around 33%) to un-freeze: so you have your 100% effect, but nost so powerful as congeal (and for upgraded bolt the same: 4 turn congeal, but only if you're lucky because of 33% chance of un-freezing). The biggest problem is how to wite it all in 1 card :D


Evil Hamster

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4836#msg4836
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

Don't want to make it more powerful than fire bolt.

Either low damage and guaranteed 1 turn freeze, or like it is now- medium damage and 1/3 chance to freeze for 3 turns.

Scaredgirl

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4837#msg4837
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

Problem with Ice Bolt is that if you use it on your opponent directly, half of the spell (possible freeze) goes to waste.

How about this? If you use Ice Bolt on you opponent..

1. his MARK gets frozen for a couple of turns (no mark quantum production)

or

2. His DECK gets frozen for one turn (no card draws)

Evil Hamster

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equality between bolts: give more power to the icy one! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=486.msg4838#msg4838
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

After re-reading this I guess my objection is I disagree with the whole premise of this thread. Ice bolt does not need any changes as it is- it is already balanced.

 

anything
blarg: