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Offline iDaire

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138824#msg1138824
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 01:34:14 am »
Lots of room for counter balancing.

Offline Terran 3Topic starter

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138833#msg1138833
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 02:44:06 am »
It only works on the permanents you control, so nope. And I'm still deciding on whether the cost should be raised. I am going to scale down the damage to 2/permanent, however.

Also, should Weapons and Shields count?
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138875#msg1138875
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 10:56:13 am »
Weapons and shields are permanents, so weapons and shields should count.
Why wouldn't they?
To be honest, This thing's dealing between 6-9 damage on average, so its cost is fine.
Otherwise, sure.

Offline iDaire

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138876#msg1138876
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 11:07:38 am »
If you are really worried, add "You generate no quanta this turn." Thematically it makes sense. People won't be inclined to spam it as much

Offline dragtom

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138877#msg1138877
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2014, 11:14:34 am »
It only works on the permanents you control
you have space for that on the card
'deal 2 damage for each unique permanent you own'

at least put it in the notes. it totally changes the idea.

Also, should Weapons and Shields count?

they are permanents, so yes.
flying weapons are no permanents anymore, so those should not  be included.
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline Terran 3Topic starter

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138892#msg1138892
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 01:54:13 pm »
Probably should have made that clear in the first place.

Anyways, new version is up.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1138923#msg1138923
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 05:46:11 pm »
Weapons and shields are permanents, so weapons and shields should count.
Why wouldn't they?
To be honest, This thing's dealing between 6-9 damage on average, so its cost is fine.
Otherwise, sure.
You also have to consider the extreme cases that can occur for decks built around the card in question when considering cost balance.

If used with the average deck, it will only pop 6-9 damage because most players only have 1 stack of pillars / pendulums plus a sword and shield.

If you were to build a deck around this card (like people would very likely try to do), you can easily get over 5 different pendulums and pillars in play after the first two to 3 turns. Also add in the sword and shield as well. That gives you 7 permanents for a total of 21 damage!

So at the very least, it should have the same cost as unstable gas unless there is some kind of counter balance.

Having only the owner's permanents count toward damage helps, but only a little. At most it carves back about 6 to 9 points of damage. Decks geared toward spamming a full field of pendulums then using this will still get to output tremendous damage. So I think its still a little OP at its current state.
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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1139696#msg1139696
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2014, 12:28:44 pm »
I really like the idea. I don't think it's unbalanced, since it requires you to build a whole deck around it to be of any serious use. Although yes, it can come up in high damage numbers much faster than Firebolt so maybe an increase in cost would make sense (by 1 for each version).

Another way I see to mix it around would be lowering the damage to 1 for each permanent and make the enemy permanents count too, as well as reducing the cost to 2 and 1 respectively. It would still be easy to come up to 4 damage like Shockwave, but more difficult to come up to massive numbers. That would also make it extra effective against permanent-reliant decks.

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1139702#msg1139702
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2014, 02:33:31 pm »
Pillar OTK?
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Offline Torriku

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1139709#msg1139709
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2014, 03:28:57 pm »
You could put down lots of unstable gas, use this a time mor 2, then set of your UGs to finish them.
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Offline treebeard xiii

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Re: Echo | Reverberation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54613.msg1139779#msg1139779
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2014, 10:30:44 pm »
personal impression gearing decks round a card also has drawbacks and can make several cards rather strong look at voodoo doll decks. for damage i fell average damage is more important and as the verdict comes to around 6-9 damage compare it too lightning 5 damage for 2 or 1 quanta, rage 5 or 6 damage for three but can only target creatures, shokwave 4 damage for 2 or 1 plus niche perm destruction, seems sound to me and compare to the bolt cards which is what a deck built round this would be fire bolt can do a maximum of 20 odd damage and averages about 3-6 damage in most duels, and ice bolt does a maximum of 16 and averages 2-4 damage and then there is drain life which has same damage output as ice bolt, all theses cards a cheaper for less damage it seems legit to me. 
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