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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231607#msg231607
« on: December 23, 2010, 07:44:23 pm »
Okay, let me start off by saying I know that a card idea called Piranha (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2128.msg22546#msg22546) was submitted by Essence awhile back. I did not know this until after I'd designed this card set. I don't think my idea impinges upon Essence's design, but I will admit to liking the Frenzy idea  :D

I'd also like to point out that, just because a Piranha Shark exists, it doesn't negate the option of a School of Piranha card.

NAME:
Piranha Shark
ELEMENT:
:water
COST:
3 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
N|3
TEXT:
Frenzy: N= number of Piranha Sharks you control at end of turn.
 :death : Devour
NAME:
Giant Piranha Shark
ELEMENT:
:water
COST:
3 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
N|4
TEXT:
Frenzy: N = number of Piranha Sharks you control at end of turn.
 :death : Devour.
ART:
Werdbooty
IDEA:
Werdbooty, Essence (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=63)
NOTES:
Just a slightly more powerful take on Scarabs, with a new mechanic.
SERIES:
N/A

And the generator:

NAME:
Sunken Ship
ELEMENT:
:water
COST:
10 :water
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
N/A
TEXT:
:water :water :water : Generate a Piranha Shark.
NAME:
Sunken Ship
ELEMENT:
:water
COST:
10 :water
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
N/A
TEXT:
:water :water :water : Generate a Giant Piranha Shark.
ART:
Werdbooty
IDEA:
Werdbooty
NOTES:
I tried to make this as balanced as possible, using Pharaoh & Scarab for comparison, hence the large cost to play. Of course feedback is essential.
SERIES:
N/A

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Offline xn0ize

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231619#msg231619
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2010, 07:57:07 pm »
i like it :D but 1 death quanta for devour.. hmm i   think gravity OR darkness...
water + death is adeadly combo..
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231623#msg231623
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 08:03:41 pm »
i like it :D but 1 death quanta for devour.. hmm i   think gravity OR darkness...
water + death is adeadly combo..
I concur, but (a) there's already a water-death correlation in the game; and (b) I have a hard time associating devour with either Darkness or Gravity on a Water card. But then, I suppose it's time for a new correlation!

Posting the poll  :D
"A kind of synthesis, but with some elements that perhaps you wouldn't have expected in advance. I always like that when that happens, when something comes that is more than the sum of the parts." —Evan Parker

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231631#msg231631
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 08:09:34 pm »
so i see this as a different element for pharoh/scarab xcept pharoah a perm and scarab have different stats, if i cant see a huge difference between the 2 sets, i wont give positive feedback

Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231636#msg231636
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 08:16:34 pm »
There's not meant to be much difference, other than the Permanent switch up. The idea with this set is not to introduce anything new to the game, but rather to give a bit more variety to what's already present. Further, this was originally meant as a new card for the Ambush! series, but I felt it didn't rightly fit the theme. I'm not one to waste an idea, so Piranha Shark went from an Ambusher to a Devourer. It just made more sense. (I'm currently working on a Devourer-Ambush combo.)

And any feedback is appreciated, negative or positive. How else does an idea evolve?
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg231694#msg231694
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 09:50:21 pm »
1) This card appears relatively balanced to me. (My guidelines for creatures do not have a high quality conversion to permanents yet.)
2) This card seems too similar to Pharaoh/Scarab. The game will always have a small pool of cards. This means that all duplication will need to have sufficient differentiation. Take the difference between Wyrm and Pegasus as an example. Both use the dive mechanic however one is a Duo creature and the other is a Mono creature. If you can sufficiently differentiate this card from Pharaoh/Scarab then it would be useful in the game.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg232081#msg232081
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2010, 07:41:04 am »
Tweaked the cards to add the Frenzy mechanic, which was slightly too easy to do. I'm a little unsure about the balance at this point. I'd really like Essence to take a look at this. In the meantime, thoughts?
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Offline Ajit

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg232444#msg232444
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2010, 10:51:11 pm »
Please please don't put yourself as the artist if you used someone else's copyrighted art with minimal.  Even with your minimal manipulation.

About the card itself, I'm still feeling that this is too similar to Scarab/Pharoah

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg232506#msg232506
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 01:47:13 am »
This card has been sufficiently differentiated from scarab/pharaoh

This card has a complicated theoretical balance (I don't even know the result as I write this)

Starting at the beginning:
Element: Water [no changes]
Attack: N [We will return to frenzy at the end. Default Attack should be 0 IMO.]
HP: 3|4 [Value:0quanta]
Activation Cost:  :death [Value:-1quanta]
Skill: Devour (3 starting HP)* [Value:4quanta]
Skill: Devour (4 starting HP)* [Value:5quanta]
Upgraded: Cost = Value -1 or -2 quanta

Totals so far:
Value: 3|4
Casting Cost: 3|3

Skill: Frenzy
This is the difficult one to figure out however it boils down to how many Piranha Sharks will be out on average. Including Fractal I think this skill is worth around 7 quanta

Total so far:
Value: 10|11
Casting Cost 10|10

Hence the Sunken Ship should cost 11|11





*Devour is valued at 10 x the percentage of creatures that can be consumed by the starting HP.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg233304#msg233304
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 05:22:07 am »
Please please don't put yourself as the artist if you used someone else's copyrighted art with minimal.  Even with your minimal manipulation.
My apologies. I'm normally pretty diligent when hunting down art. I found this while doing a hunt for stock photos from - you guessed it - Piranha 3D. I was under the impression it was up for grabs, but after some more careful hunting, I see that this is concept art only. Now, normally concept art ISN'T copyrighted (you can't copyright something that hasn't been created yet), and after much searching I have yet to find a single trademark or copyright to this picture. But hey - if we can't prove it, best not to risk it, hey? At any rate, I'll get something else on the go. I just didn't want an out-and-out piranha pic, something a little more menacing. The card will be fine as is for now tho, as long as it isn't implemented. At any rate, I'm citing Fair Use.

@OldTrees: yeah this card set was a pain in the rear end to figure out. I spent a good 10 to 15 minutes agonizing over the cost of Sunken Ship. I was originally gonna go with 11 but I thought that might be too high, and 9 seemed too low, so I figured I'd make it an even ten & toss it on the forums for some feedback. At any rate, your math looks alot like mine :P

Also, for everyone who feels this card is too similar to Scarab/Pharaoh - that's the idea. It's coming along, but I established right off the bat that this set was inspired by the Scarab/Pharaoh combo. As it is right now, I think the only real similarity is the fact that it has Devour and there's a generator card involved, but if anyone has any other thoughts I'd be glad to hear em.
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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg233442#msg233442
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 01:45:18 pm »
@Werdbooty
The majority of the math was me telling you that the fish is worth around 10 :water casting cost.
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qetuol

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Re: Piranha Shark | Giant Piranha Shark | Sunken Ship https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18186.msg233615#msg233615
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 07:20:12 pm »
this + fractal = 9 piranhas = 81 dmg... OP

 

anything
blarg: