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Planetus

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8536#msg8536
« on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Just found this game a few days ago and I'm an addict.  I have to say, awesome job on creativity, art, music, balance, mechanisms, everything!

Anyway, while playing around I hit upon an idea I thought would be increadibly fun, and not overpowered either: a Parasite element, where each card is themed to draw power from the opponent somehow.  The Darkness deck already has a little bit of this, but this deck would be much more complete, with a lot more variety.  My wife (who also plays) pointed out that I'd need a counter-deck, and the natural couner to a parasite is a symbiote, so I started work on a Symbiote deck, which would be themed on paired cards playing off each other.  Here they are:
FORMAT:
Card name (cost in native quanta): attack/HP
  (type if not creature)                 Abilities (one time, repeatable, constant, activated, etc.)

PARASITE:

Leech(2): 1/1
          each attack grants Leech +0/+1?
          1 Parasite to drain 0/1 from target creature? (repeat)

Worms(3): 1/1
          1 Life to damage target creature 0/1 and spawn a new Worms (repeat)

Tick(2):  2/2                                                                **Yes, this card is shamelessly stolen from the existing Darkness deck
          1 Death to infect target creature 1 poison (repeat)   **but a Parasite deck should have the creature called Parasite somehow

Life Steeler(5): 3/4
                 Attacks drain HP to player (constant)

Strength Stealer(5): 0/4
                     2 Parasite to drain 1/0 from target creature (repeat)

Infested Dragon(10): 9/4
                     1 Death to inflict 1 poison on target (repeat)

Infest (4): Inflict 1 poison per 10 Parasite quanta

Mind Control (8 ): "Steal" target creature

Life Binder (5): 3 Parasite: target creature takes damage in place of player
  (Permanent)

Parasitic Bond (5): 30% damage to player is directed to opponent
  (Shield)

Parasitic Blade (5): 4 damage per turn
  (Special Weapon)   drains 2 damage per turn
                          2 Life: mutate target creature

SYMBIOTE:

Grasper(2): 4/1
            1 Symbiote: bonds to Shell: Shell takes damage for both, and heals +0/+2 each turn (once)

Shell(2): 0/10

Body(4): 4/4
         1 Symbiote to gain +1/+1 if Mind is on the field (repeat)

Mind(4): 1/1
         1 Symtiote to deal 1 damage per Body on the field to any target (repeat)

Fang(8 ): 5/5
         Gains +5/+5 if Claw is on the field (passive)

Claw(8 ): 5/5
         Gains +5/+5 if Fang is on the field (passive)

Symbiotic Bond (5): player heals 2 for every symbiote on the field
  (Permanent)

Symbiotic Life (5): all symbiotes gain +2/+2
  (Permanent)

Symbiote Shell (3): reduces damage by 1 and cures poison every turn
  (Shield)

Bonded Blade (3): 3 damage per turn
                  heals 5 damage per turn

I haven't put nearly as much work into the Symbiote deck, but I think the general idea is there.  The only effort to balance these cards has been my attempt to keep myself in check, so I don't even pretend that these exact cards are even workable, much less balanced.

Sigh

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8537#msg8537
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

There was talk in the forums about coming up with more elements as well, the most popuar one being a machine-type element (I personally thought the counter to it could be a spirit-type element). These starter cards could be a very nice addition to tjhe game, although there sure are a heckuva lot of effects in there. IE: the dragons don't have any abilities 'cept the aether one.

Offline Terroking

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8538#msg8538
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

piallrs get no abilities either, but i think many of the effects are completely overpowered/underpowered

the bond is unfair, as it would be double the healing of life's version, which is almost 70% bent on healing and grasper should be changed to arm, and have 10/1 (?) with shell staying the same, and both having a passive ability of combine, when they are both on the field they both die (but don't trigger graveyard or bonewall) and create _____ with 10/10 (15/15?) also a bunch of the cards from parasite cards could easily be death or darkness, and some of them seem to be death (infest), but most of the cards are very good  ;D

I ask nothing of humanity but fairness in all things, but I do not expect even that.

Sigh

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8539#msg8539
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

I think when he said pillar he meant permanent since I didn't find that specific word anywhere in the descriptions.

bobcamel

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8540#msg8540
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

...look, Elements are Elements. Building blocks of the World, found in places or such. There is Air and gasses, Water and liquids, Earth and solids, Fire, and so on. So, where is Parasite in this? What does Parasite build, its form in the world?

...seriously, if you're trying to make an element, try to find something in the World that is overlooked by the existing 12. I recommend going outside for that.

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8541#msg8541
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Quote
I recommend going outside for that.
Ripping off my Void element? Antithesis of our universe?
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

bobcamel

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8542#msg8542
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Quote
I recommend going outside for that.
Ripping off my Void element? Antithesis of our universe?
No, an allusion to how do you get to see the world when you cease sitting in front of your computer and leave your house. Not "going outside of our universe to meet the nothingness you suggest."

Sigh

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8543#msg8543
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Will you two kindly can it? You're spamming/arguing on this poor player's thread...

Besides, its kinda hard to build up more elements without making something up, Zan is already getting a little sciency with having Gravity, so why not have other elements that most wouldn't necessarily call "elements"?

bubbrubb

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8544#msg8544
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

...look, Elements are Elements. Building blocks of the World, found in places or such.
Well by that logic none of these things should be elements and we should be using oxygen, nitrogen, silicon, etc... c'mon don't be that guy.

Overall i think there were a lot of nice ideas in there and nothing jumps off the page at me as highly overpowered right off the bat. For the most part those were pretty unique ideas too so props for that.

Planetus

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8875#msg8875
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

There was talk in the forums about coming up with more elements as well, the most popuar one being a machine-type element (I personally thought the counter to it could be a spirit-type element).
That does sound like a nice idea.  There may be some problems contrasting Spirit with Aether, though.

These starter cards could be a very nice addition to tjhe game, although there sure are a heckuva lot of effects in there. IE: the dragons don't have any abilities 'cept the aether one.
Both of these decks would be very ability dependant.  You may have noticed that none of the Parasite creatures are terribly powerful save the dragon (and even that is brought down 1/1 from a normal dragon to make up for it's ability).  The Symbiote creatures, on the other hand, are all supposed to pair up and compliment each other.  It would have to be balanced properly, but I don't think it's a problem.

piallrs get no abilities either
I called them "pillar" cards because they stick around, and all the cards like them have a pillar symbol on them (Nightfall, etc).  I've changed it to pa"Permanent" to avoid confusion.

but i think many of the effects are completely overpowered/underpowered
Yeah, I tried to present them as balanced as possible, but without testing and careful analysis that's hard.

the bond is unfair, as it would be double the healing of life's version, which is almost 70% bent on healing
I'm not sure what you mean here.  The Parasitic Bond doesn't heal, it just avoids damage (30%) similar to Dusk Mantle and Fog Shield, but it also redirects it to the enemy (thus the lower % and higher cost).  Also, it's entirely dependant on the enemy attack.  Sure, if you're facing a ton of powerful creatures it's powerful, but against one photon it's useless.

and grasper should be changed to arm, and have 10/1 (?) with shell staying the same, and both having a passive ability of combine, when they are both on the field they both die (but don't trigger graveyard or bonewall) and create _____ with 10/10 (15/15?)
I though about that, but them fusing into one creature would be a little complicated, and I'm not sure I like the idea as a whole.  Also, I thought about calling it "arm" or "claw", but "Grasper" sounded much more like an actual creature, and that's what these are supposed to be.  Maybe change "Shell" to "Shelled XXX" to fit?

also a bunch of the cards from parasite cards could easily be death or darkness, and some of them seem to be death (infest), but most of the cards are very good  ;D
Death and Darkness both have some of these features (Death gets poison, though non-scaling, and Darkness get's a Parasite and the parasitic Devourer) but none significantly and the concept doesn't seem to have been explored through the cards that exist.

...look, Elements are Elements. Building blocks of the World, found in places or such. There is Air and gasses, Water and liquids, Earth and solids, Fire, and so on. So, where is Parasite in this? What does Parasite build, its form in the world?

...seriously, if you're trying to make an element, try to find something in the World that is overlooked by the existing 12. I recommend going outside for that.
If you're talking the classic elements, there's Fire, Air, Earth, and Water, and nothing else.  No light, no darkness, no time, no gravity, no entropy, no aether, no nothing.  If you're talking chemical, we're all way off.  Even if you go classical in other cultures, you still don't get more than 5 (Fire, Water, Air, Metal, and Wood in Japan).  Face it, we're making up elements as we go, and Parasite and Symbiote is no more esoteric than Entropy, and definitely more than Aether (something that doesn't actually exist).

Overall i think there were a lot of nice ideas in there and nothing jumps off the page at me as highly overpowered right off the bat. For the most part those were pretty unique ideas too so props for that.
Thank you.   ;D

A number of them are quite powerful, but I tried to pair those with high costs or significant weaknesses.

bobcamel

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8876#msg8876
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

Ahem. Aether featured in Greek mythology. Also, this Platon's idea: Fire particles are tetraedrs, Earth particles are cubes, Air particles are the eightsided things, Water particles are icosaedres and ...yes, Aether ones are the 12-sided hexagon-sideshaped ones.

As for, I meant that those things are what happens and/or exists or at least in mythologies.

Air: Gasses
Earth: Solids
Water: Fluids
Fire: Heat and "flames"
Life: The fact there are things that somehow are animated, the power doing it must be an element
Death: The fact things stop being animated, the power doing this must be an element
Light: Light, the thing that makes us see
Darkness: Absence of light, as it was thought of ages ago, makes us not see
Aether: Space, the empty place in the skies where Gods reside and such. The background of the world.
Gravity: Forces, the force that keeps us down and hinders pushing an object and makes things fall
Entropy: The fact that things don't always go the same no matter how you try
Time: ...well, time, and that it flows and stuff happens
Sentience: That each human thinks and the thoughts form unique things and this doesn't fall under any other element
Parasite: ...uh, what?
Symbiote: ...I think this falls under Life, together with all the other Biology terms.

Delreich

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Parasite and Symbiote Element Idea https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=912.msg8877#msg8877
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

12 elements is a lot already, there's no need for more. Themed cards with existing elements would make far more sense.

The parasite idea would do just fine as dark/death. Symbiote would be life I guess, maybe life/water.

 

anything
blarg: