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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320108#msg320108
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 02:46:44 am »
Well, I didn't do QUITE that well in stats.
Are you recommending that I boost the cost to 8 :entropy?

I'm not seeing how since the card would give you an advantage against other deck types that it shouldn't be used.  Isn't the point of different cards to give advantages over different deck types???  Kinda like... sucks for Lava Destroyers if the other guy is running a Fire Buckler.

And yes, I do value the recommendations.
No I am recomending you keep it at 6 :entropy+1card which is an converted quanta cost of 8 :entropy.
This was calculated assuming it would be used in rainbows (obvious assumption) and facing duos (the vast majority of decks)
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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320117#msg320117
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2011, 02:56:38 am »
Unless your opponent is running a rainbow or gets lucky, this will favor the caster heavily, as a deck that uses this will also pack Supernovas or Quantum Pillars/Towers.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320131#msg320131
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2011, 03:14:29 am »
Unless your opponent is running a rainbow or gets lucky, this will favor the caster heavily, as a deck that uses this will also pack Supernovas or Quantum Pillars/Towers.
By heavily did you mean 6 :entropy+1card casting cost or did you think that was too low?
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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320134#msg320134
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2011, 03:23:24 am »
I meant that despite the fact that it gives 4 permanent cards to your opponent's hand, your opponent will likely be unable to use them.  Sometimes, yes.  Also, it's possible to cast this when your opponent has more than 4 cards in his hand, wasting some of the bonus.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320140#msg320140
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2011, 03:40:37 am »
I meant that despite the fact that it gives 4 permanent cards to your opponent's hand, your opponent will likely be unable to use them.  Sometimes, yes.  Also, it's possible to cast this when your opponent has more than 4 cards in his hand, wasting some of the bonus.
To the field. See notes.
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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320193#msg320193
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 06:25:58 am »
Oh, I read the discussion instead which sounded like they were generated in-hand.  My mistake.

Heh, Flooding is an interesting inclusion - every time it's generated for someone who doesn't use :water, it'll just vanish again.  Sundials and Cloaks are pretty cool, though, as could be Pendulums.

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320300#msg320300
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 01:33:49 pm »
How do you mean, "6 :entropy + 1 card?" as a value for the card.

Much like with the occasional twin universe in Pandemonium, the sudden appearance of Flooding would be very unpleasant for the unprepared player.  Personally, though, I'm not opposed to that.

Looking at the usefulness of the cards specifically, it is conceivable that a player could create a deck in which every permanent created would be useful to him (such as if he is just spamming permanents for FG's to burn their Explosions and Steals).  The opponent, on the other hand, likely running dual-element as OldTrees pointed out, would run a 52% chance, per permanent, of a card suited to his element, based on my own humble calculations.

However, outside his element, most of these cards are usually useful.  Any pendulum is at least somewhat useful.  Unstable Gas and Sundial are useful to any player with a single Nova or Immolation played.  Time (Hourglass) is used very commonly, even in decks designed for other elements.

So by gut (usually right where I work) I am predicting that a player's opponent would typically receive about 3 useful permanents.  Some players would likely get nothing (Fractal Pests).

Opportunity Cost:  Playing Antimatter for the same cost would essentially eliminate an opponent's creature while creating continuous healing for the player, which gives the opponent nothing in return.

Given this, I'm considering changing the upgraded card to 4 :entropy -> You receive two random permanents."  This would allow the player the option of a card that does not assist his opponent at all (while still not necessarily assisting him, either).

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320301#msg320301
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 01:38:54 pm »
A cost of X :entropy +1card means that you had to draw the card and pay X :entropy to play it.
Black Dragon costs 10 :darkness+1card
Precognition costs 2 :time+0cards because it refunds the card draw
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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320384#msg320384
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 03:27:24 pm »
Fair enough.

You wouldn't consider that to be 6 :entropy - 3 cards, though, as it generates 4 cards for the player?

Offline YoungSot

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320388#msg320388
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 03:31:15 pm »
Fair enough.

You wouldn't consider that to be 6 :entropy - 3 cards, though, as it generates 4 cards for the player?
It still requires you to draw the card, so no.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320434#msg320434
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 04:38:28 pm »
Fair enough.

You wouldn't consider that to be 6 :entropy - 3 cards, though, as it generates 4 cards for the player?
Not the way I balanced the equation. However A+B=C <-> A=C-B.
So yes it could be setup as
Cost: 6 :entropy-3 cards=0
Net Benefit: (0 :entropy + 0 cards)x4 permanents=0
Cost=Net Benefit

I set it up as this to make more sense to those that do not fully understand it.
Cost: 6 :entropy+1 card=8
Net Benefit: ([0 :entropy + 1 cards]=2)x4 permanents=8
Cost=Net Benefit
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Re: Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25035.msg320479#msg320479
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2011, 05:40:06 pm »
gotcha, all makes sense now

What are your thoughts on my upgrade change?

 

blarg: