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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: waterzx on January 26, 2012, 12:03:15 pm

Title: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 26, 2012, 12:03:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/eeTJ1.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/F5BGM.jpg)
NAME:
Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
3 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 3
TEXT:
Gain -1|-1 every turn until it dies. When it dies, generate another Ouroboros at the cost of 1 :time
NAME:
Eternal Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
:time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 2
TEXT:
Gain -1|-1 every turn until it dies. When it dies, generate another Eternal Ouroboros at the cost of 1 :time
ART:
wikimedia commons
IDEA:
waterzx
NOTES:
Deals unstable but continuous damage to opponent. This nasty creature cannot be killed by any means. Killing it means bringing it back to the original state.

For unupped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2+1)/4 = 2.5
For upped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2)/3 = 3

The upped version seems weak but Eternal Loop can't "die" so it's stronger instead ( return to full attack state faster )
SERIES:
(http://i.imgur.com/3Whjm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/wm2zj.png)
NAME:
Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
3 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 3
TEXT:
Gain -1| -1 every turn until it dies.
Generate another Ouroboros when it dies
NAME:
Eternal Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
3 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 2
TEXT:
Gain -1| -1 every turn until it dies.
Generate another Eternal Ouroboros when it dies
ART:
wikimedia commons
IDEA:
waterzx
NOTES:
Deals unstable but continuous damage to opponent. This nasty creature cannot be killed by any means. Killing it means bringing it back to the original state.

For unupped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2+1)/4 = 2.5
For upped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2)/3 = 3

The upped version seems weak but Eternal Loop can't "die" so it's stronger instead ( return to full attack state faster )

Good synergy with Death cards.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: SnoWeb on January 26, 2012, 01:55:36 pm
Very interesting. Good synergy with death triggered effects. Bonewall in particular would take another dimension (using rewind on the skelletons).
Might be a bit too expensive. Compare that to immortal (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1987.0.html).

As an illustration you might want to use a Moebius ring (http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1263263).
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 27, 2012, 01:11:25 am
A Mobius Ring may not be the best image, considering it's a creature.  With that, Temporal Loop sounds more of a Permanent name rather than a Creature.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Rutarete on January 27, 2012, 01:18:02 am
Cool idea. But is it really worth 6 cost? I think 5 would be fine. Can the attack go negative if you keep it alive?

Edit: 2500!
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: waterzx on January 27, 2012, 03:12:16 am
Cool idea. But is it really worth 6 cost? I think 5 would be fine. Can the attack go negative if you keep it alive?

Edit: 2500!
Yes it could gain negative attack

Very interesting. Good synergy with death triggered effects. Bonewall in particular would take another dimension (using rewind on the skelletons).
Might be a bit too expensive. Compare that to immortal (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1987.0.html).

As an illustration you might want to use a Moebius ring (http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1263263).
The cost can be lowered to 4 or 5 quanta

but I think it's different from immortal as immortal can be killed by effect of shield.

Having seen so many death deck bound with the entropy's cat. This creature can bring death and time elements together :D
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 27, 2012, 03:16:07 am
But also consider the net damage.  In 4 turns, Immortal deals more damage than Temporal Loop.  Disregarding Fire Buckler and Thorn Carapace, Temporal Loop shouldn't be priced as is.  Maybe a quanta or two lower.

Edit:  Didn't see that second part of the post.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: waterzx on January 27, 2012, 03:00:24 pm
Just make a new version. Everyone checks that out
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Calindu on January 27, 2012, 06:45:14 pm
I actually like the idea, not OP, and -1 HP for the upgraded version was brilliant.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Winter Is Coming on January 27, 2012, 07:57:21 pm
What happens if you put a ton of plate armor on it and it's attacks go negative?
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: 17927.2brainz on January 27, 2012, 08:09:04 pm
Ouroboros:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

I like the idea. Basilisk blood would be a great counter.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on January 27, 2012, 11:19:22 pm
What happens if you put a ton of plate armor on it and it's attacks go negative?
Then you heal the opponent of course. What else?

I like this card.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: Winter Is Coming on January 27, 2012, 11:33:55 pm
What happens if you put a ton of plate armor on it and it's attacks go negative?
Then you heal the opponent of course. What else?

I like this card.
Alright. That seems like a good card, then. Not ridiculously powerful and still a lot of interesting ways to counteract or augment it.
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: oblivion1212 on January 28, 2012, 12:34:19 am
Ouroboros:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

I like the idea. Basilisk blood would be a great counter.
Yeah, you might wanna name it Ouroboros (demon snake eating its own tail, right?)

And no, it's not unkillable, you could use Aflatoxin to fill the field, then aflatoxin again on the last copy on this creature. Yay, you've just spent 16 :death to fill the enemy's board + kill this creature! XD

On that note, how is this affected by Aflatoxin and Skull Shield|Buckler ?
Both cards have weird interaction with Phoenix|Minor Phoenix
IIRC,
afla + phoenix = malig +ash (?)
s.shield/buckler + phoenix = skelly

awesome card :D
Title: Re: Temporal Loop / Eternal Loop
Post by: waterzx on January 28, 2012, 03:44:14 am
Thank you for all the suggestion and support !

Enjoy the new graphic design! This nasty snake took me half an hour to make (to figure out how to use image editor)

(http://i.imgur.com/3Whjm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/wm2zj.png)
NAME:
Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
3 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 3
TEXT:
Gain -1| -1 every turn until it dies.
Generate another Ouroboros when it dies
NAME:
Eternal Ouroboros
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
3 :time
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 2
TEXT:
Gain -1| -1 every turn until it dies.
Generate another Eternal Ouroboros when it dies
ART:
wikimedia commons
IDEA:
waterzx
NOTES:
Deals unstable but continuous damage to opponent. This nasty creature cannot be killed by any means. Killing it means bringing it back to the original state.

For unupped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2+1)/4 = 2.5
For upped card : average damage per turn in one loop : (4+3+2)/3 = 3

The upped version seems weak but Eternal Loop can't "die" so it's stronger instead ( return to full attack state faster )

Good synergy with Death cards.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 28, 2012, 03:52:10 am
Quote
On that note, how is this affected by Aflatoxin and Skull Shield|Buckler ?
Both cards have weird interaction with Phoenix|Minor Phoenix
IIRC,
afla + phoenix = malig +ash (?)
s.shield/buckler + phoenix = skelly
I think it's similar to Phoenix

afla + ouroboros = malig + ouroboros ( Because the toxin kills the ouroboros and cause regeneration)
s.shield/buckler + ouroboros = skeleton (Because ouroboros is not killed, it's just "transformed")
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 28, 2012, 04:08:19 am
Do a full forum search for Ouroboros.
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 28, 2012, 04:32:52 am
Do a full forum search for Ouroboros.
Oh...there was a similar idea in this forum...

What should I do? I submitted this to Crucible, shall I remove it ?
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 28, 2012, 04:39:37 am
Ask Kuro and or Xeno to make the judgement call, if you should change it.
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: Absol on January 28, 2012, 05:50:58 pm
Have someone mentions Fractal?
For a 3 damage (average) and practically unkillable critter, this would feel OP.
Compare Frogtal which can be trumped with a single RoF.
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 29, 2012, 02:33:27 am
Have someone mentions Fractal?
For a 3 damage (average) and practically unkillable critter, this would feel OP.
Compare Frogtal which can be trumped with a single RoF.
Fractal makes everything OP...

Example : Fractal a scarab and each of them costs only 2 quanta. But the scarabs will become large enough to devour every single creature in the field
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: DarkStelth52 on January 29, 2012, 03:04:53 am
I like the card idea a lot :)
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: Absol on January 31, 2012, 01:57:29 am
Have someone mentions Fractal?
For a 3 damage (average) and practically unkillable critter, this would feel OP.
Compare Frogtal which can be trumped with a single RoF.
Fractal makes everything OP...

Example : Fractal a scarab and each of them costs only 2 quanta. But the scarabs will become large enough to devour every single creature in the field
By the same argument, Eternal Phoenix is OP.
But no, really. While Scarabs can still be killed with enough RoF, lobo'd, denied, this card can't. Get them out, got weaker average damage than Minor Phoenix, immortality forever.

Phoenix: 4 dmg, immortality, need  :fire, delay a turn
Ouroboros: 3 average damage, immortality, no upkeep, no delay
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 31, 2012, 03:21:43 am
Have someone mentions Fractal?
For a 3 damage (average) and practically unkillable critter, this would feel OP.
Compare Frogtal which can be trumped with a single RoF.
Fractal makes everything OP...

Example : Fractal a scarab and each of them costs only 2 quanta. But the scarabs will become large enough to devour every single creature in the field
By the same argument, Eternal Phoenix is OP.
But no, really. While Scarabs can still be killed with enough RoF, lobo'd, denied, this card can't. Get them out, got weaker average damage than Minor Phoenix, immortality forever.

Phoenix: 4 dmg, immortality, need  :fire, delay a turn
Ouroboros: 3 average damage, immortality, no upkeep, no delay
So you are suggesting a lower damage for Ouroboros ? Or give it a upkeep cost ?
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: Absol on January 31, 2012, 03:51:23 am
Have someone mentions Fractal?
For a 3 damage (average) and practically unkillable critter, this would feel OP.
Compare Frogtal which can be trumped with a single RoF.
Fractal makes everything OP...

Example : Fractal a scarab and each of them costs only 2 quanta. But the scarabs will become large enough to devour every single creature in the field
By the same argument, Eternal Phoenix is OP.
But no, really. While Scarabs can still be killed with enough RoF, lobo'd, denied, this card can't. Get them out, got weaker average damage than Minor Phoenix, immortality forever.

Phoenix: 4 dmg, immortality, need  :fire, delay a turn
Ouroboros: 3 average damage, immortality, no upkeep, no delay
So you are suggesting a lower damage for Ouroboros ? Or give it a upkeep cost ?
Either increase the cost or make it immaterial to prevent fractalling. Instant rebirth isn't something to be underestimated.
5 or 6  :time should be enough.

OR,
Make it so before it rebirthed, it would drain one  :time. If it can't, it's dead forever.
(i'd say 2  :time, but seeing that Ouroboros will die, sooner or later, it balanced out with Phoenix's rebirth)
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 31, 2012, 06:09:55 am
Quote
Either increase the cost or make it immaterial to prevent fractalling. Instant rebirth isn't something to be underestimated.
5 or 6  :time should be enough.

OR,
Make it so before it rebirthed, it would drain one  :time. If it can't, it's dead forever.
(i'd say 2  :time, but seeing that Ouroboros will die, sooner or later, it balanced out with Phoenix's rebirth)
I think the latter is better Thank you for your suggestion
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: Absol on January 31, 2012, 10:43:40 am
... And now the upped becomes UP... (lower HP = bigger upkeep)
Maybe make the upped stats 4/3 too, but with cost 2 :time?
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on January 31, 2012, 10:51:46 am
... And now the upped becomes UP... (lower HP = bigger upkeep)
Maybe make the upped stats 4/3 too, but with cost 2 :time?
You are right. Your suggestion is good.

Need some time to see how to make it better
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: waterzx on February 01, 2012, 02:07:29 am
Somehow I lost the original image. So I roughly made some change on the upgraded version

Now the cost for that card is reduced to 1 but other stats and upkeep cost remain unchanged
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: Kuroaitou on February 15, 2012, 02:37:05 pm
CURATOR COMMENT
-Fix the upped card's image (The cost in the top right corner has a bizarre number - please fix it so that it matches the font of the number used in the non-upped card)
-Fix the COST in the upgraded table (it should state '1 :time', instead of just ":time")
-Provide a link to your art source
-Remove all of the text in the parenthesis in your title, and use a pipe symbol or '|' to separate the names (EX: Ouroboros | Eternal Ouroboros)

Just a side note; the card idea looks a bit too similar to another Ouroboros that basically regenerates itself upon death (the Life versio (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23068.0.html)n). Perhaps it would be better that instead of causing it to 'die' to demonstrate its eternal continuity, what if it had an ability to 'rewind' itself (with quanta) back into the owner's deck? Just a random thought. ^^;
Title: Re: Ouroboros / Eternal Ouroboros ( Previous name : Temporal Loop )
Post by: moomoose on February 15, 2012, 10:25:40 pm
kami's was better.  this one is awkward and not novel.
blarg: