*Author

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Osin | Osin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg264172#msg264172
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 04:41:29 pm »
Thanks for all the input and comments.

As of this moment, I can't see dedicating specific new cards to "hero control", so as of right now, if a hero is in protection, he can't be harmed.  If deployed, he is treated like any other creature.  With this in mind we need to be extra careful to not make the Hero too strong in protection...  Perhaps some PC will work on it.
Ok so the Hero if implemented would take up a new special permanent slot. It may or may not be vulnerable to some or all PC.

I would suggest that the Hero start out as a Totem (permanent) and the Totem animates into a Hero (creature). This way the Hero while in the Hero slot is directly counterable with PC (except for Shockwave, Earthquake and Trident).
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline AjitTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Awards: Winner of the Card Border Redesign
Re: Osin | Osin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg264173#msg264173
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 04:43:22 pm »
Thanks for all the input and comments.

As of this moment, I can't see dedicating specific new cards to "hero control", so as of right now, if a hero is in protection, he can't be harmed.  If deployed, he is treated like any other creature.  With this in mind we need to be extra careful to not make the Hero too strong in protection...  Perhaps some PC will work on it.
Ok so the Hero if implemented would take up a new special permanent slot. It may or may not be vulnerable to some or all PC.

I would suggest that the Hero start out as a Totem (permanent) and the Totem animates into a Hero (creature). This way the Hero while in the Hero slot is directly counterable with PC (except for Shockwave, Earthquake and Trident).
Ahh an excellent solution there OT!  I'll think on this.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Osin | Osin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg264184#msg264184
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2011, 05:09:37 pm »
Thanks for all the input and comments.

As of this moment, I can't see dedicating specific new cards to "hero control", so as of right now, if a hero is in protection, he can't be harmed.  If deployed, he is treated like any other creature.  With this in mind we need to be extra careful to not make the Hero too strong in protection...  Perhaps some PC will work on it.
Ok so the Hero if implemented would take up a new special permanent slot. It may or may not be vulnerable to some or all PC.

I would suggest that the Hero start out as a Totem (permanent) and the Totem animates into a Hero (creature). This way the Hero while in the Hero slot is directly counterable with PC (except for Shockwave, Earthquake and Trident).
Ahh an excellent solution there OT!  I'll think on this.
Since you like this solution then I will continue to answer the rest of question 1 assuming the Totem/Hero mechanics described above.
1) The hero mechanic:
a] How does it work? (PC?, CC?, HC?, safe?)
b] How does it impact the balance of the card idea?
a] I am assuming that it would act like a regular permanent in a special slot (Totem, Shield, Weapon) with an active ability to animate into a Hero/petrify back into a Totem and a passive ability that changes depending on whether it is a Totem or a Hero. This would leave it vulnerable to the same types of PC as shields.
b] This has a few impacts on balance
i) It is a modular card. This means that it has greater versatility than either form represents. This would call for a cost increase in theoretical balance. Uppercut was making a modular series recently and decided a +1quanta cost increase was appropriate for a 2 mode card.
ii) It can evade fast CC by remaining a Totem, ignore slow CC by refreshing as a Totem now and again and has a minimum of 1 turn vulnerable to PC.
Evading fast spell or automatic active skill based CC is accounted for in the modular perspective of this card.
Evading fast activated active skill based CC (Devour and Paradox) is worth some cost increase. (~+.5quanta?)
Ignoring slow CC is a big concern but so far that only applies to Plague, Liquid Shadow, Gravity Pull Snipe and Fire Shield. This is definitely worth a cost increase. (~+1quanta?)
1 turn vulnerable to PC is a debuff from the modular perspective. But not a large debuff. (- ~.25-.5 quanta?).
iii) The special slot
Since only 1 Totem can exist at a time it deserves a cost reduction. However since it can easily animate it deserves a smaller universal cost reduction and a small Totem version only cost reduction. (-1quanta and -1quanta).
So in total
Totem Version: +0 from regular theory
Hero Version: +1 from regular theory

So now on to question 2
2) Theme:
What kinds of abilities are appropriate for Totem/Heroes to have?
Does this fit?
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline AjitTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Awards: Winner of the Card Border Redesign
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274825#msg274825
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2011, 09:00:56 pm »
OK, thanks for the help OldTrees, I've finally updated the Hero concept with the ideas of the "totem" integrated into the new card.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274840#msg274840
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2011, 09:09:18 pm »
Osin should have a cost of 5|4 :life
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline AjitTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Awards: Winner of the Card Border Redesign
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274846#msg274846
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2011, 09:11:41 pm »
Osin should have a cost of 5|4 :life
Right I noticed that, I'll fix it in the future.  So btw I should have clarified on the original post that you can't play Osin directly, you can only have the Totems in your deck.

adding that now.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274860#msg274860
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 09:18:01 pm »
Unfortunately there is a penultimate question to answer:
2) Theme:
What kinds of abilities are appropriate for Totem/Heroes to have?
Does this fit?

We need responses to this question.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline ZephyrPhantom

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 101
  • ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeFlavour Text Revival Competition - WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274865#msg274865
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2011, 09:20:18 pm »
Unfortunately there is a penultimate question to answer:
2) Theme:
What kinds of abilities are appropriate for Totem/Heroes to have?
Does this fit?

We need responses to this question.
Heroes should have leader-like abilities and be able to inflict considerable harm in some way or another.

Leader ability - Lowers cost (apparently a good commander as well as a decent fighter)
Hero's Impact - High Attack.

It seems to fit IMHO.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274870#msg274870
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2011, 09:26:17 pm »
Unfortunately there is a penultimate question to answer:
2) Theme:
What kinds of abilities are appropriate for Totem/Heroes to have?
Does this fit?

We need responses to this question.
Heroes should have leader-like abilities and be able to inflict considerable harm in some way or another.

Leader ability - Lowers cost (apparently a good commander as well as a decent fighter)
Hero's Impact - High Attack.

It seems to fit IMHO.
So Totems should have "leader-like abilities"
and Heros should "inflict considerable harm"?
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline AjitTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Awards: Winner of the Card Border Redesign
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274875#msg274875
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2011, 09:31:08 pm »
Perhaps the concept of "hero" should be dropped and replaced with Totem.  The two seem to crossover too much to warrant using both concepts.  Hero was originally implemented because I pictured Osin towards the back of the battlefield commanding the armies of his master (the player).  Now that he is a Totem when in protection, you lose that "leadership" or "hero" feel to it.  Instead it is now more of a magical/ancient being whose essence has been entombed inside a Totem.  So perhaps "leadership" shouldn't be the aim when a Totem.  Instead, think more along the lines of magical/enchanted "aura" effects.

M4ck

  • Guest
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274972#msg274972
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 12:27:28 am »
Anyways, if it is kept in its current form, would it affect only your hand, or FFQ as well? I mean, spawning Fireflies uses some :life quanta. Would the cost be reduced?

Offline AjitTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Ajit is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Awards: Winner of the Card Border Redesign
Re: Osin Totem | Osin Totem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20654.msg274973#msg274973
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2011, 12:28:54 am »
The card reads for only it to affect life creatures, so not Firefly.  Good question though.

 

blarg: