Nill Eater | Omni Eater

[Espithel]

NAME: Nill Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 2 | 1 TEXT: Your minimum deck size is reduced by one.	NAME: Omni Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 6 | 6 TEXT: Your minimum deck size is increased by three.

ART: Original Art links: Gem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ruby_gem.JPG Background: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1327495 Modified and merged by OdinVanguard using GIMP IDEA: Frozengaia NOTES: Neither effects have an effect inside of battle. Example deck: Nill Phoenixes Hover over cards for details, click for permalink Deck import code : [Select] 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 000 000 000 000 000 000 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 8po Using the upped and unupped in combination, you get: Fiddling with the upped and unupped... Using 6, you get these results- 6 unupped: 24 card deck. 5 unupped, 1 upped: 28 card deck. 4 unupped, 2 upped: 32. 3-3: 36. 2-4: 40. 1-5: 44. 6: 48. So 2 upped and 4 unupped seems optimum. SERIES:

Spoiler for Previous versions:

NAME: Nill Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 2 | 1 TEXT: Your minimum decksize is reduced by one.	NAME: Omni Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5 | 5 TEXT: Your minimum decksize is increased by three.

ART: See previous IDEA: Me NOTES: Improved version. The ability of this card only has an affect in the deck manager. In-game, it is simply a 5 | 5 and a 2 | 1 for the respective cost. I'm not happy with a 5 | 5, feels like horned frog is better, would prefer 6 | 6. SERIES:

Spoiler for Hidden:

NAME: Nill Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 0 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 2 | 1 TEXT: Your minimum deck size is reduced by one. Your starting life total is reduced by 3.	NAME: Omni Eater ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 7 | 7 TEXT: Your minimum deck size is increased by three.

ART: Royalty free (http://www.imagesource.com/Doc/IS0/Media/TR3_WATERMARKED/f/2/c/3/IS099T93Z.jpg) IDEA: Me (I hope. ;-;) NOTES: A... quirky card with quirky (if not filler, it plays around with nothingness.) art. I really, REALLY need to replace the art. The first card allows for 24 card decks, which can be comboed with time's precog to get that down to 18. The upgraded card is pretty powerful but requires a 33 card deck. The cards only take effect inside the deck builder and at the start of the game. Mitosis and fractal has no effect on deck size and life total. SERIES:

[ARTHANASIOS]

Very interesting idea, it almost deserves a 5/5 just for the idea, but since it looks like quite difficult to code it and its balance seems a bit out of place, I will give a 4/5.
What if you build a Fractal deck with SoBras and Omni Eaters? Each Sobra is going to solve the deck size problem and Aether can stall with Dims anyway.
What about a very good and short deck with Nill Eaters, Lightning Balls and SoPas? It may even work without Fractal. Or a Nill Eater Immorush? It could be insane!
In other words, it is still quite OP in both versions for completely different reasons.

[Espithel]

I find myself still putting six and five of every card in a deck.
Immo rushes need... well, fire, to operate. With less cremations come less fire.

It's not just that suddenly every card can be used.
In terms of fractal, that's an extra 12-18 cards, making a 40-50 card deck. It's not the fastest fractal, and there are better targets. Can the deck deal with SoBra AND Fractal AND Dims, too? I doubt it. Then you have to wait for the buggers to kill your opponent, and that opens them up to CC problems.

Nill eaters, lightning bolts, sopas? Eh, 6 of every 0-cost card + 6 sopa, does the job. Nill eaters + Sopa wouldn't be too bad, but with only HP for your opponent to shave off... With fractal, yeah, that could be a problem, but wouldn't need as much of a nerf as, say... SouFfle.

[CuCN]

Does the unupped affect max HP or not?

[andretimpa]

Interesting, Nill Eater favours rushy decks while Omni favours stalls. The main problem I see is the similarity between Nill Eater and Precog (the main use of precog is deck thinning), not so much stepping on Precog's toes, but using it in conjunction with precog, which as you pointed allow "18 card decks". The main archetype I see being benefitted are immorushes (which could even use the eaters as fodder). What would need to be tested is if starting with 82 HP is enough of a drawback to compensate for the speed.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Spoiler for Hidden:

I find myself still putting six and five of every card in a deck.
Immo rushes need... well, fire, to operate. With less cremations come less fire.

It's not just that suddenly every card can be used.
In terms of fractal, that's an extra 12-18 cards, making a 40-50 card deck. It's not the fastest fractal, and there are better targets. Can the deck deal with SoBra AND Fractal AND Dims, too? I doubt it. Then you have to wait for the buggers to kill your opponent, and that opens them up to CC problems.

Nill eaters, lightning bolts, sopas? Eh, 6 of every 0-cost card + 6 sopa, does the job. Nill eaters + Sopa wouldn't be too bad, but with only HP for your opponent to shave off... With fractal, yeah, that could be a problem, but wouldn't need as much of a nerf as, say... SouFfle.

Immorushes can use Nill Eaters as a Immolation fodder. Less cards = less chance for RNG to screw you. It is NOT like Precog, you have to play 2 |1 quanta for precog just to take away the card space it gets. This cost 3 hp for reducing your deck by 1 and include a zero cost card (Nill Eater), much better than Precog in general. Any healing of any short can easily regain the lost hp, not that starting with less hp is unimportant.

I think a stat change is needed. No matter the deck size, these statistics are OP, 2|1 for zero in unupped meta and 2 for 7|7 im upped are extremely OP, even with the hp/size disadvantages. There are 60-card decks which are very effective and have lots of creatures, so Omni Eater will be just a too awesome choice (if I am planning to use a fat deck, Omni Eater has zero disadvantages and the 7|7 for 2 awesome advantage, that's what I am saying). Moreover, the 3 hp loss are countering the smaller size deck (which is an extremely positive thing), so there is no need for the great 2|1 for zero stats.

Imho, make Nill Eater 1|1 for 1 in order to be less abusable and make Omni Eater 5|5 for 2 (still very powerful but more balanced). A poll asking the community for how the cost/statistics ratio should change would be nice.

Regardless, I've already mention I think this is a 5-star idea, so I am going to support this card in general, despite some imbalances.

[andretimpa]

Spoiler for Hidden:

I find myself still putting six and five of every card in a deck.
Immo rushes need... well, fire, to operate. With less cremations come less fire.

It's not just that suddenly every card can be used.
In terms of fractal, that's an extra 12-18 cards, making a 40-50 card deck. It's not the fastest fractal, and there are better targets. Can the deck deal with SoBra AND Fractal AND Dims, too? I doubt it. Then you have to wait for the buggers to kill your opponent, and that opens them up to CC problems.

Nill eaters, lightning bolts, sopas? Eh, 6 of every 0-cost card + 6 sopa, does the job. Nill eaters + Sopa wouldn't be too bad, but with only HP for your opponent to shave off... With fractal, yeah, that could be a problem, but wouldn't need as much of a nerf as, say... SouFfle.

Immorushes can use Nill Eaters as a Immolation fodder. Less cards = less chance for RNG to screw you. It is NOT like Precog, you have to play 2 |1 quanta for precog just to take away the card space it gets. This cost 3 hp for reducing your deck by 1 and include a zero cost card (Nill Eater), much better than Precog in general. Any healing of any short can easily regain the lost hp, not that starting with less hp is unimportant.

I think a stat change is needed. No matter the deck size, these statistics are OP, 2|1 for zero in unupped meta and 2 for 7|7 im upped are extremely OP, even with the hp/size disadvantages. There are 60-card decks which are very effective and have lots of creatures, so Omni Eater will be just a too awesome choice (if I am planning to use a fat deck, Omni Eater has zero disadvantages and the 7|7 for 2 awesome advantage, that's what I am saying). Moreover, the 3 hp loss are countering the smaller size deck (which is an extremely positive thing), so there is no need for the great 2|1 for zero stats.

Imho, make Nill Eater 1|1 for 1 in order to be less abusable and make Omni Eater 5|5 for 2 (still very powerful but more balanced). A poll asking the community for how the cost/statistics ratio should change would be nice.

Regardless, I've already mention I think this is a 5-star idea, so I am going to support this card in general, despite some imbalances.

Also, with upped precogs you have no problem using both (leaving Nills deliberately unnuped) so crema/immo rushes cut through the deck like a hot knife in butter.

[Blacksmith]

I really like this idea! well done!  4/5 for sure.

[Espithel]

The unupped... I was intending for it to affect maximum HP, but if you don't want it to, then that's fine.

For reference, the unupped card was originally a card called "meekness" which was a card that reduced the deck size by one, just like that.
I made it a creature because drawing it would feel so wasted, and I've already dropped out of the idea of reducing deck size by two ( ) so card draw felt... bleh.
What I'm getting at is that the effect could be anything. I made it a 1 | 1 creature, thought that was already photon, so I added reducing HP and increased the ATK to 2.

It could be as far as "Heal yourself for 1 HP." As long as it's not a dead card, like Relic, IDC.

May I just point out that it's technically a 18 card deck with six nil eaters, because of nil eaters taking up space, and a 12 card deck with precogs?
So that's... What, 6 immolations... 48 fire quanta? That's... 5 seraphs, 4 dragons, 6 phoenixes, with some bonus deflags?
It's a pretty quanta strained deck, if you ask me.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 626 626 626 626 626 626 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 8po

Replace salvagers with Nil eaters.


But, yeah, you've persuaded me on the upped... I mapped abyss crawler, annd... Well, if the main purpose is going to be stalls, kinda defeats the point of having a 2 cost card... Meh, whatever.
Seeing that a horned frog is 5 | 3 upped for 2... I don't think 2 toughness is worth 3 additional cards, so I'd make it 6 | 5, a 6 | 6, because

...That art is so silly now. I'M GOING TO KILL YOU WITH MY ARMY OF CHAIRS THAT ARE OF EQUAL POWER TO PHOENIXES AND NEARLY AS POWERFUL AS A CYBERDRAGON! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHASH!
...I'll find better art to depict nothingness.
...Or ask people to make better art to depict nothingess.

So I'll put a poll up for the upped, and just ask people here what to do with the unupped?

[Espithel]

Weird thought: Reducing deck size would be an interesting SoV buff.

[Rutarete]

FEAR THE MIGHTY CHAIR OF NILL AND OMNI!

A very interesting card, Frozengaia.

What interest me most with this at the moment is, fiddling with upped and unupped to cancel each other out. There's also the fact that for the unupped, the drawback isn't really a drawback when combined with SoD. And given that it's free (zero cost) there are some interesting combos to come of it (-wise)

Another interesting thing to consider is how this will affect (if at all) deckout decks in the meta.

[Espithel]

Fiddling with the upped and unupped...
Using 6, you get these results-
6 unupped: 24 card deck, 18 reduced HP.
5 unupped, 1 upped: 28 card deck, 15 reduced HP.
4 unupped, 2 upped: 32, 12.
3-3: 36, 9.
2-4: 40, 6.
1-5: 44, 3
6: 48, 0.

So 2 upped and 4 unupped seems optimum.

The drawback was designed in mind it's a 2|1. Probably should make the card 0|2 fot the unupped and remove the HP reduction.