New Psuedo Element - Negation Antiquanta

[storyteller]

bloodshadow already is using Void - and his work is commendable.  I have an element in mind that is kinda similar but not really based around the same things. I decided Negation or perhaps even Antiquanta.

This is somewhere between a series, and an Element. Much of these, are Element cards, that work opposite their element. For instance,  Fire, would have a card that causes Freezing.



The basic cards I have so far:
 
- 4 / - 3 Solidify|Materialize  -   remove immaterial status

 
- 2 Vacuum - probably a damage card

 
- 6 Burst of Light
- 3 Illumination

 
- 8 Instill Life
- 3 Panacea

 
- 12 Crumble - destroy permanents

 
- 1 Stabilize - undo mutations, return creature to its basic card state

 
Thermal Drop - cause freezing (was going to call this Absolute Zero, but it was just used, might wait and use the name anyway, that card was a bit of inspiration for this, along with BloodShadow's Void series)

 
Antigravity - cause flying, less damage

 
Harm Kill - nuff said

 
- 1 Shadow - creature
Darklight -

 
- 1 Rethink - put card in hand on top of deck - this might work on opp upgraded

 
- 8 Anhydrous Reaction - damages creatures each turn by one or two damage,
 


There is an antiquanta pillar, its is like a quantum pillar, but it gives you Antiquanta. Quanta and Antiquanta cancel each other out. Antiquanta is negative quanta numbers. You dont spend Antiquanta, you 'unlock levels' of antiquanta. A -5  Negation card, does not 'add quanta' when cast, it needs you to have -5 in  , then you can use as many cards of that level you want in a row.
 Antiquanta pillars work kinda like Quantum pillars, you get 1 random for the regular, and 3 random each turn. The cards you can buy in the bazaar.
There are going to be a few pedulum type cards, they grant quanta of their type, and then alternate by giving antiquanta in greater and greater levels. There is also an Antiquanta 'nova' it gives you decent levels of some antiquanta for high costs.
 if you have a  pillar, and an Anti- pillar (not sure if each element will do this, just an example) they generate in order played, so if you have 5  pillars first, they make 5,  then if you have 3 Anti -  (just for instance) they first one would make it 0 then each one would give you a level that turn for level -2 Anti .

It is possible to play Negation cards with quanta, even of the same element, but it is difficult. Anyway, this is just an early draft, sorting out the basics, i think you get the idea.

[Nepycros]

No matter how much people want the "anti-" things to work, you simply can't put an essence of one element into another. You can't put Light into Darkness, nor Water into Fire.

[tyranim]

No matter how much people want the "anti-" things to work, you simply can't put an essence of one element into another. You can't put Light into Darkness, nor Water into Fire.

of course you can, its called steam [/joking]
but seriously, i honestly dont like the idea much. i mean, what purpose do any of these cards serve? are they meant to counter your opponents element? if so, then its way too situational.
is it meant for you to use in your own deck to add more flavor? if so, then it wont work well enough in that element and probably just clog up your hand.

[storyteller]

they are meant to provide a new way to play.
They dont specifically counter that element, they provide a new way to play cards, instead of worrying about traditional quanta, which works like money, you save up so many pennies(quanta) and spend it on things(cards being played).
This is more like an elevator, when you get to the right floor, you can use anything on that floor.

These cards simply represent the pure absence, even the opposite of their element. The absolute negation of fire is zero kelvin. Things Freeze. The opposite of gravity is antigravity, so a card that makes things fly and carry less force.

These are like, polarity. Consider, there are situations, where an extreme exothermic reaction, can cause something to produce ice. A pure lack of air, would be a vacuum.

I think most people, would take a few cards that helped their overall  strategy. These cards dont work against their particular element, they use the nature of that element in a new way.

Take a simple Death deck, you might add some ability to generate Antilife and use Harm/Kill with your deck. Its not dissimilar to a traditional duo-color, but you basically just have to get enough Antilife and you can cast several of the Harm spell in a row.

I see these used that way alot. I still have a long way to go before I get these fleshed out. Id love to hear how the community would improve the idea. I was really impressed with the Void series, a lot of work was done there. Since blood is already using that, I think this is good. Void works on new ways to defeat your opponent, by granting them quanta and lowering their max hp and such, which is very cool, but not what im going for. Im looking at cards that defy the rules. Stuff that would be too powerful to implement on normal quanta costs, or that is too powerful in traditional play.

Consider the  card  'Solidify/Materialize', it remove immaterial from creatures, possibly perms too. In a regular aether deck that is too strong, being able to make your creatures immaterial and remove it easily is too much, but if instead of just needing a lot of aether to cast it, you actually need negative aether, its much more balanced.

I see cards that like, break the traditional boundaries of play. the idea of using the elements wraped around on themselves, to create effects opposite their traditional nature very interesting.

Most people i think will use these sparingly, to create some nice combos.

No matter how much people want the "anti-" things to work, you simply can't put an essence of one element into another. You can't put Light into Darkness, nor Water into Fire.

of course you can, its called steam [/joking]
but seriously, i honestly dont like the idea much. i mean, what purpose do any of these cards serve? are they meant to counter your opponents element? if so, then its way too situational.
is it meant for you to use in your own deck to add more flavor? if so, then it wont work well enough in that element and probably just clog up your hand.

I wouldnt say flavor, just a different approach to things. They dont specifically counter an element, just use the element in its inverse.

[Rutarete]

No matter how much people want the "anti-" things to work, you simply can't put an essence of one element into another. You can't put Light into Darkness, nor Water into Fire.

You may not be able too, but it's interesting to see what's come up with.

[ZephyrPhantom]

So levels of antiquanta are gained by having that amount of anti-pillars?

[OldTrees]

Sorry, but no matter how you look at it a card that is the opposite of Fire will never be a Fire card. This is not to say that Life will not have poison. (notice the difference)
Supernova is a card of Entropy Level 2. This is called a Stock quanta cost. It does not need negative quanta levels to work.

[storyteller]

So levels of antiquanta are gained by having that amount of anti-pillars?

Thats actually an interesting way to do it, not exactly what I had meant but that works really well.
Maybe some other ways of creating the 'Antiquanta' levels. Maybe permanents that require sacrificing to cast the card.

Sorry, but no matter how you look at it a card that is the opposite of Fire will never be a Fire card. This is not to say that Life will not have poison. (notice the difference)
Supernova is a card of Entropy Level 2. This is called a Stock quanta cost. It does not need negative quanta levels to work.

Well, Im sure you get the gist of what I am trying to do, Im very interested in your thoughts on Antiquanta and inverse elemental spells.

[OldTrees]

Sorry, but no matter how you look at it a card that is the opposite of Fire will never be a Fire card. This is not to say that Life will not have poison. (notice the difference)
Supernova is a card of Entropy Level 2. This is called a Stock quanta cost. It does not need negative quanta levels to work.

Well, Im sure you get the gist of what I am trying to do, Im very interested in your thoughts on Antiquanta and inverse elemental spells.

You appear to be trying to do several different things
1) You are trying to make a series of cards based on Stock quanta costs but you made the type of stock quanta harder to obtain. I think that was unnecessary and a mistake. Using normal quanta for stock quanta costs would work fine. Warning: Stock quanta costs are not very high compared to actual quanta costs. I do not have a good way to derive an equation for you though.

2) You are trying to make cards that try to drain all of their element instead of infuse more of their element. Most of the time this will not match with the Element's philosophical strategy. However there will be rare exceptions that are worth identifying and pursuing. That means leave all that do not qualify to be forgotten. These would probably be high Stock quanta cards that produce a small amount of quanta [1 ]. This would be even harder to balance.

3) You are trying to make yet another pseudo-element. Please don't make a pseudo-element when the cards do not need the new quanta type. Also please do not make a pseudo-element unless you are willing to back it up with the work involved. There is a reason that the Idea Factory is working together on 1 element idea. Bloodshadow still needs playtesters (he has 1 so far) for his series.

In conclusion I would suggest dropping 2 and 3 to work on 1.

[storyteller]

ok, maybe i can clarify, Im more trying to do 3 than 2 or 1, and moreso, Im trying to develop a series of cards based around the absolute opposite polarity of that element that  They should be powerful enough and unique enough tyo require unusual circumstances to cast.

[OldTrees]

ok, maybe i can clarify, Im more trying to do 3 than 2 or 1, and moreso, Im trying to develop a series of cards based around the absolute opposite polarity of that element that  They should be powerful enough and unique enough tyo require unusual circumstances to cast.

So my guess on 2 was too optimistic huh?
You really are trying to go:
What card truly does not belong with a red(fire) background, lets give it one?

As for 3,
I have reviewed your card suggestions and I have seen how you have presented a finalized idea. I do not think that sufficient resources have been mustered to attempt 3.

[storyteller]

You really are trying to go:
What card truly does not belong with a red(fire) background, lets give it one?

no, Im trying to express the idea of opposite polarity, antimatter(not the card) and inversion or negation.

What would the absolute opposite of this element be, and how would these ideas work in this game, and how can I create an interesting play mechanic that meshes with the current system.