new programming change

[Forfeit]

Good point. But there is promise in this idea, maybe there should be a spell card with 'grant a creature a card effect'. And Queen has been reported very few times, I think it just has a lower precetage chance of occuring.

[Delreich]

And Queen has been reported very few times, I think it just has a lower precetage chance of occuring.

No, it doesn't. Those reports would have to be either mistaken (a rewound ffq mutant would be a regular ffq when replayed, for example) or bugs.

[sillyking14]

Almost every creature with an ability has an activated ability. The other abilities are triggered and do not have a game-changing effect but mostly produce quanta. Giving a creature activated abilities that do direct damage or board-sweeping effects is just plain overpowered. Those abilities are spell-only for a reason. As for static abilities like stasis or triggered abilities like Empathy, those are color-specific and should remain unique to the card to which they belong. Also, there are even creature abilities that were left off of the mutate list, most notably Queen, Lobotomize, and Immortalize. I think we all know why.

the only board sweeping effect would be rain of fire and i think so far we all agree that (like miracle) having that would be a bad idea. also , what about momentum, i know that its supposed to be activated but is it? and as for game changing. and as for game changing, you don't think its game changing to get a 13/7 dragon with GROWTH or DEJA VU or DIVE. what about an armagio with devour. you also have to think in terms of deck type. even if someone gets a good card that can be rewound doesn't mean they are the right element to use that card, or that they even have rewind in their deck.

like i keep saying the idea behind entropy is that its random and this would provide more randomness.

[jmizzle7]

Almost every creature with an ability has an activated ability. The other abilities are triggered and do not have a game-changing effect but mostly produce quanta. Giving a creature activated abilities that do direct damage or board-sweeping effects is just plain overpowered. Those abilities are spell-only for a reason. As for static abilities like stasis or triggered abilities like Empathy, those are color-specific and should remain unique to the card to which they belong. Also, there are even creature abilities that were left off of the mutate list, most notably Queen, Lobotomize, and Immortalize. I think we all know why.

the only board sweeping effect would be rain of fire and i think so far we all agree that (like miracle) having that would be a bad idea. also , what about momentum, i know that its supposed to be activated but is it? and as for game changing. and as for game changing, you don't think its game changing to get a 13/7 dragon with GROWTH or DEJA VU or DIVE. what about an armagio with devour. you also have to think in terms of deck type. even if someone gets a good card that can be rewound doesn't mean they are the right element to use that card, or that they even have rewind in their deck.

like i keep saying the idea behind entropy is that its random and this would provide more randomness.

I never said anything about Rewind, but yes, most of these creatures could be vulnerable to it, just like anything that isn't immaterial. About deja vu, growth, dive... those are fine, and once again, I never said those abilities are not game changing. Don't put words in my mouth. They are already inherent creature abilities and provide some incentive for improved mutation. The improved mutation mechanic can produce anything from 0/2 with dive, to immaterial 1/4, to 14/x with deja vu. It's pretty balanced as it is, so why fix it if it ain't broken?

[Forfeit]

We're not talking about fixing it, we're talking about adding to it. I don't really think that whats suggested neds to be implemented, but it's not a bad idea.

[sillyking14]

Almost every creature with an ability has an activated ability. The other abilities are triggered and do not have a game-changing effect but mostly produce quanta. Giving a creature activated abilities that do direct damage or board-sweeping effects is just plain overpowered. Those abilities are spell-only for a reason. As for static abilities like stasis or triggered abilities like Empathy, those are color-specific and should remain unique to the card to which they belong. Also, there are even creature abilities that were left off of the mutate list, most notably Queen, Lobotomize, and Immortalize. I think we all know why.

the only board sweeping effect would be rain of fire and i think so far we all agree that (like miracle) having that would be a bad idea. also , what about momentum, i know that its supposed to be activated but is it? and as for game changing. and as for game changing, you don't think its game changing to get a 13/7 dragon with GROWTH or DEJA VU or DIVE. what about an armagio with devour. you also have to think in terms of deck type. even if someone gets a good card that can be rewound doesn't mean they are the right element to use that card, or that they even have rewind in their deck.

like i keep saying the idea behind entropy is that its random and this would provide more randomness.

I never said anything about Rewind, but yes, most of these creatures could be vulnerable to it, just like anything that isn't immaterial. About deja vu, growth, dive... those are fine, and once again, I never said those abilities are not game changing. Don't put words in my mouth. They are already inherent creature abilities and provide some incentive for improved mutation. The improved mutation mechanic can produce anything from 0/2 with dive, to immaterial 1/4, to 14/x with deja vu. It's pretty balanced as it is, so why fix it if it ain't broken?

i know you never mentioned rewind but thats what is inferred by not wanting ffq to come up in a mutation (at least thats the only reason i can think for it) oh wait nm i just re-read your post, its the effects that you don't want. my issue is that if they are already on cards why shouldn't they (most of them) be able to be added with improve, i don't actually expect this to happen and i don't necessarily hink that it would make the game more balanced (on the flip side it really wouldn't take away from balance either) but i would personally find it fun to be able to use an armagio with parallell universe or all of the many fun combinations that could sprout from this as an addition. and after all the point of a GAME is to be fun and not just balanced and well made. so if there is something that can be done o make it fun hile not making one particular strat OP then why not do it?

[jmizzle7]

I agree that the game needs to be fun and balanced. But remember, every mutant's ability costs either 1 or 2 quanta of its element. Being able to have a Shrieker with PU for 1 earth is just plain nasty, especially when you consider the other abilities/stats the new copy would have.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the really powerful stuff and nearly every ability in the game could be mutated into, that would totally push the incentive to play with druids that everybody would use them. The game should be fun, but not imbalanced to the point that the other viable deck types are neglected.

[Delreich]

The suggestion was to have the ability cost mirror the cards, but it's still ridiculous. Imagine a graboid with supernova or immortality or just about any shield effect.
Not to mention that the whole "cost as card" bit is ambiguous. Would 'destroy' cost 3 fire, 2 fire, 3 gravity or 1 gravity?

The current system is fine. Might be that some of the abilities are a bit strong and others that are kind of weak, but it all evens out, and there's no game-breaking ones at least.

[sillyking14]

as i mentioned before, a dragon with deja vu isn't game breaking? all the time i hear people saying "i won beacuse by druid turned a skele into a 15/6 dragon with dive. besides destroy already has a cost. im talking about things like lightning, which costs 5. and it would be he same as with other mutations the costs would be whatever type the creature is. so if you got an armagio with PU then it would cost 7 GRAVITY quantums.

[jmizzle7]

Game-breaking effects like turning a skeleton into a 15/6 dragon with dive are just an instance of a strong mechanic. The mechanic itself is not game-breaking. As I said before, every creature ability on a mutant costs either 1 or 2 quanta, not 6 or 8 or whatever. Should these abilities be implemented, the entire code of the mutate function would have to be rewritten. As for the new proposed abilities...

If you can generate creatures with effects from any card in the game, why run the original copy of the card in the first place? I would much rather have a dragon with empathy than the actual empathy card, but that isn't what this game is about. Allowing for one game mechanic (mutate) to generate any and all of the best effects in the game is just plain silly, no matter what the cost. The point is to have variety in deck types and play styles, not to create a game of "Who made the most game-breaking mutant".

[sillyking14]

like i said when i started this thread, i new that it would take an rewirting of a lot of code. and the problem with building a druid deck is that its ould be random, now more than ever, you wouldn't be able to guarentee getting that 15/6 dragon with empathy. you might get a 2/0 creature with (well it doesn't really matter what it gets since it'll be dead before it can be used more than once. fallen druids are very vulnerable, very very vulnerable. so, ll you'd have to do is destroy the druid and your problems are over. and to the argument (which is undoubtedly coming from somewhere) that you could use anubis to make the druid immortal, or blessing to make it stronger, yes thats true but that would also require trying to balance antother element n on top of the entropy/life for the druid the death for the boneyard (if you mutate skeles) or the air/life for an ffq, and so on. on the other hand it might make it possible for at least one mono/duo decks to compete with gods. and it would be just plain fun

[jmizzle7]

I guess we will just agree to disagree, then. I see no point in changing the mechanic. It is not overpowered now and doesn't need any additional potential bombs. As for mono- or dual-element decks taking on the gods, there are some that have already been made that can beat some of them. I am currently working on a non-rainbow build that can take on all of them and will post it eventually. Mono aether and even mono light can take on some gods, but not all.