Multi-mark cards (multicolor) the can produce combos

[cipher_nemo]

Have you ever seen this situation where the 2 players bring an Oty out early in the game and then nothing for 2/3 turns?
Both Otys, gazing into each other's eyes, just like in those old Italian westerns

LOL. Indeed.

Of course you can tell me that there are 10 million ways to counter a simple 1/6 oty and you would be right but those mechanics can be used against your opponent as well so they're not really meaningful "counters".

Well, dozens of ways to kill/remove an Otyugh, but the exaggeration is fine. I really don't feel an early Otyugh is doing anyone any real good in PvP or other end-game matches against most of the AI controlled decks.

When I play a game, I really don't care what is happening early. Well, there are exceptions: poison, which I make sure I can overcome in the speed of my deck. But otherwise, it's the lock at end game that I'm more concerned with. All of the good you do early in a game might not make any difference at the end of a match when one side gets in a lock condition.

Sure, Otyughs out early help quite a bit. But they're nothing compared to a lock. If I had 2 Otyughs and 2 Fallend Druids out near the end of a match, I can always turn improved mutation (and any mutation ability from my mutated creatures) to change a huge, powerful creature into something an Otyugh can eat. With bone walls, sun dials, and phase shields, I can easily protect myself while I strip down an opponent after my lock. It's easy to lock against the AI, but takes a little more in PvP since a human player isn't going to waste permanent destruction on the highest value permanent you have (ie: a bone wall).

The game only needs one thing for the second option to be possible: more content.

Agreed.

[Scaredgirl]

I really don't feel an early Otyugh is doing anyone any real good in PvP..

What?

Early Otyugh is one of the most powerful things you can have in this game. If cannot counter it somehow, it will just eat almost everything you play on the table. Otyugh is the king of creature control.

The key here is the game mechanic that doesn't allow you to use creatures ability during the same turn you play it. This is why it is so crucial to play a crowd control creature before the opponent does.

[rawr]

I really don't feel an early Otyugh is doing anyone any real good in PvP..

What?

Early Otyugh is one of the most powerful things you can have in this game. If cannot counter it somehow, it will just eat almost everything you play on the table. Otyugh is the king of creature control.

The key here is the game mechanic that doesn't allow you to use creatures ability during the same turn you play it. This is why it is so crucial to play a crowd control creature before the opponent does.

As a PvPer, I agree with cipher_nemo.  Most decks know how to handle an early otyugh, so if he appears early, he is well handled.  This is assuming, of course, that he is out before you have laid down a solid base of creatures.  I've seen many people push 2 otyughs right off the bat, only to have them sit and rot for a few turns until I can deal with them.

It really isn't crucial to play crowd creature control in PvP before your opponent does.  Also, you are talking almost exclusively about rainbow vs rainbow, in that most decks outside of rainbow don't feature otyughs.

[cipher_nemo]

Early Otyugh is one of the most powerful things you can have in this game. If cannot counter it somehow, it will just eat almost everything you play on the table. Otyugh is the king of creature control.

The key here is the game mechanic that doesn't allow you to use creatures ability during the same turn you play it. This is why it is so crucial to play a crowd control creature before the opponent does.

Hmm. I think I'd like to play against you in PvP. Waste your Otyughs early and I'll remove them soon enough <evil laugh>.

Then you're left with no Otyughs since you can't retrieve anything from the graveyard. If you're playing a Rainbow deck of around 40 cards and lay out 2 Otyughs early, it's fairly safe to assume they're the only 2 you have. But if you lay down two Otyughs early with a Rainbow or Graviton mark deck with 40 to 60 cards, you might be hiding another one.

And if you have two Otyughs down early, I'm not going to be stupid enough (like the AI) to lay out creatures for them to consume until I deal with them. In PvP, if you put these out early, you've just helped me cement my strategy on what to do next.

[rawr]

Hmm. I think I'd like to play against you in PvP. Waste your Otyughs early and I'll remove them soon enough <evil laugh>.

Then you're left with no Otyughs since you can't retrieve anything from the graveyard. If you're playing a Rainbow deck of around 40 cards and lay out 2 Otyughs early, it's fairly safe to assume they're the only 2 you have. But if you lay down two Otyughs early with a Rainbow or Graviton mark deck with 40 to 60 cards, you might be hiding another one.

And if you have two Otyughs down early, I'm not going to be stupid enough (like the AI) to lay out creatures for them to consume until I deal with them. In PvP, if you put these out early, you've just helped me cement my strategy on what to do next.

What kind of deck do you normally run cipher?  Seems like you pvp a bit, and know what you are talking about.  I would like to face off with you in PvP sometime.

[jmizzle7]

Yeah... Playing more than one Oty early in PvP is pretty dumb. The rainbow mirror match is a huge chess game in which you try to make the most of your creature and permanent control while minimizing the effect of your opponent's. This means not overextending your board with creatures that you don't need at the moment. It's a control vs. control matchup, and anybody who has played CCGs long enough should know that he who wins the battle of card advantage usually wins the match in this case.

Playing Otyugh early against non-rainbow strategies is much more dangerous for your opponent, especially if they have no real answer to it. In this case, play Otyugh as early and often as possible. He can eat denial decks' Pests, pillarless fire's Golems (if you get him out early enough), speed poison's Physalias, speed earth's Shriekers (and will prevent your opponent from morphing his Graboids immediately), etc.

[Scaredgirl]

Early Otyugh is one of the most powerful things you can have in this game. If cannot counter it somehow, it will just eat almost everything you play on the table. Otyugh is the king of creature control.

The key here is the game mechanic that doesn't allow you to use creatures ability during the same turn you play it. This is why it is so crucial to play a crowd control creature before the opponent does.

Hmm. I think I'd like to play against you in PvP. Waste your Otyughs early and I'll remove them soon enough <evil laugh>.

Then you're left with no Otyughs since you can't retrieve anything from the graveyard. If you're playing a Rainbow deck of around 40 cards and lay out 2 Otyughs early, it's fairly safe to assume they're the only 2 you have. But if you lay down two Otyughs early with a Rainbow or Graviton mark deck with 40 to 60 cards, you might be hiding another one.

And if you have two Otyughs down early, I'm not going to be stupid enough (like the AI) to lay out creatures for them to consume until I deal with them. In PvP, if you put these out early, you've just helped me cement my strategy on what to do next.

Yes.. if my strategy did indeed involve playing my only 2 Otyughs at the same time and then doing nothing for the next 10 turns, then yes, I would probably get owned.

[rawr]

Yes.. if my strategy did indeed involve playing my only 2 Otyughs at the same time and then doing nothing for the next 10 turns, then yes, I would probably get owned.

Well, you did say you relied on getting an otyugh out early.  Shows that you spend more time playing trainers than PvP.

I think jmiz' post sums up the Rainbow vs Rainbow standoff quite well.