Misery | Woe

[mildlyfrightenedboy]

NAME: Misery ELEMENT: Darkness COST: 7 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 0 | 1 TEXT: Misery's stats are always 0 | 1.  Any damage dealt to Woe is dealt to all enemy creatures.  Drain per turn.	NAME: Woe ELEMENT: Darkness COST: 8 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 0 | 1 TEXT: Woe's stats are always 0 | 1.  Any damage dealt to Woe is dealt to all enemy creatures.

ART: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1284263 IDEA: MildlyFrightenedBoy NOTES: Things in bold are answers to questions that I know would be asked otherwise.  If you do not read all of the notes, please at least read what is in bold. Basics: It works like a Voodoo Doll, but for your opponent's creatures. Basically, any damage dealt to Misery / Woe is redirected to all enemy creatures.  Misery and Woe cannot be killed - their stats can never change. Clarifications: Attacks targeted against Misery / Woe will not be redirected to all enemy creatures; only the damage dealt is redirected.  For instance, if you were to use Drain Life on Misery / Woe, you would not gain massive amounts of HP because only the damage dealt to Misery would be redirected to all enemy creatures.  If you were to use Rage Potion on Misery / Woe, every enemy creature would lose 5 HP and gain no ATK.  If you were to poison Misery / Woe, enemy creatures would not be poisoned, but they would take damage every turn (when Misery / Woe takes poison damage). Damage dealt to Misery / Woe cannot affect immaterial or burrowed creatures.  The damage-redirecting skill of Misery / Woe is passive and cannot be lobotomized.  If you do not have the required quanta at the end of your turn, Misery will disappear.  Woe has no upkeep. There are a few counters to Misery / Woe, one of which being to make Misery / Woe immaterial by whatever means.  Another would be to make sure not to use any all-enemy damaging effects. Multiple Miseries / Woes: If you want to have a little fun, though, you can use TU on a Misery / Woe or play your own.  Any damage inflicted to the enemy Misery / Woe would be inflicted to your Misery / Woe and your creatures, which would then be inflicted to their creatures.  Only one Misery / Woe can use its skill per side.  (It would basically kill every creature if you were to each have one, then inflict any damage to either.)  If you each have at least one Misery / Woe, then any damage inflicted to either Misery / Woe will be dealt to every creature on the field.

[xsindomanx]

Nice idea, but isn't this card a bit too powerful?  As you gave the example in your 'notes', if somebody played misery / woo, then used two rage potions on it, all the enemy creatures would lose 10 hp? O.o There are less than 10 cards that have more than 10 hp.
Another problem seems to be that woe (the upped version) has no way to be destroyed, and can only quinted to be made useless. The opponent also must have quints or immortal creatures to survive (which a lot of current decks don't have!)

Some suggestions:

Make Woe also drain 1  per turn, so that there is a chance to destroy it with spells such as black hole, earthquake, and discordTo follow up with making woe drain dark quarta, make cost woe = 7, cost misery = 8 (although this seems like a lot x-x)Change misery's ability to "any damage dealt to misery is dealt to ALL creatures" to limit unupped uses and force the player to have quints or no creaturesTo follow up with making misery's ability change, make cost woe = 7 (same as before) and cost misery = 7

One final question: What about burrowed creatures?

[mildlyfrightenedboy]

Nice idea, but isn't this card a bit too powerful?  As you gave the example in your 'notes', if somebody played misery / woe, then used two rage potions on it, all the enemy creatures would lose 10 hp? O.o There are less than 10 cards that have more than 10 hp.
Another problem seems to be that woe (the upped version) has no way to be destroyed, and can only quinted to be made useless. The opponent also must have quints or immortal creatures to survive (which a lot of current decks don't have!)

Some suggestions:

Make Woe also drain 1  per turn, so that there is a chance to destroy it with spells such as black hole, earthquake, and discordTo follow up with making woe drain dark quarta, make cost woe = 7, cost misery = 8 (although this seems like a lot x-x)Change misery's ability to "any damage dealt to misery is dealt to ALL creatures" to limit unupped uses and force the player to have quints or no creaturesTo follow up with making misery's ability change, make cost woe = 7 (same as before) and cost misery = 7

One final question: What about burrowed creatures?

- I had expected that the card would be ridiculously overpowered.  I might nerf the damage redirection to two enemy creatures.  (If I were to only make it harm one creature, then it would be basically a way to get around Cloak and to harm your opponent with their Fire Shield and any all-creature spells.)  If I were to do this, do you think that it would still be overpowered, underpowered, or balanced?  I either am going to open a poll or already have.
- I really don't want to make this card able to deal damage to your own creatures.
- I can't address any cost issues until the effect is feasible.
- No, it does not harm burrowed creatures.  I added this to the notes where I address that it cannot affect immaterial creatures.

[RRQJ]

I'm guessing your intention was mainly to deter your opponent from playing certain cards, but like mentioned, what makes this card OP is the fact that you can use your own cards to generate the mass cc effect.

And I don't like the invulnerability aspect of this.  It's too close to immortality.  Except that it gains to ability to be targeted.  Sure, most targeting things won't be meaningful, but butterfly effect?  Invulnerable PC.  Also, gravity force? From my understanding, putting it on this would mean no damage to you except by momentum, or direct spell damage.  So yeah...
Honestly, the only thing I can think of that can be considered a viable tactic against this is rewind and eternity.  And only eternity can count as a true solution, since you'll run out of rewinds. (btw, That one  upkeep is negligible considering what has in its card arsenal)

[mildlyfrightenedboy]

I'm guessing your intention was mainly to deter your opponent from playing certain cards, but like mentioned, what makes this card OP is the fact that you can use your own cards to generate the mass cc effect.

And I don't like the invulnerability aspect of this.  It's too close to immortality.  Except that it gains to ability to be targeted.  Sure, most targeting things won't be meaningful, but butterfly effect?  Invulnerable PC.  Also, gravity force? From my understanding, putting it on this would mean no damage to you except by momentum, or direct spell damage.  So yeah...
Honestly, the only thing I can think of that can be considered a viable tactic against this is rewind and eternity.  And only eternity can count as a true solution, since you'll run out of rewinds. (That one  upkeep is negligible)

I didn't think of the effect of Gravity Pull or Butterfly Effect; this was not what I intended.  Do you have any idea how to word it so that it can not gain any skill?  I basically want it to be something that you can target to make your CC more potent and to possibly throw some of your opponent's CC back at them.  I don't want it to turn into some uncontrollable killing machine or complete invulnerability; the problem is the fact that it has to be targeted, yet it can't be targeted.

[xsindomanx]

*Good to know that you don't want to deal with cost or self-damaging effect in any way.

*You still haven't answered whether you want to change woe so that it also drains  every turn. If you do not wish to do this, you will need to majorly weaken woe's ability, since it is really an invincible creature in many cases.

If you nerf damage redirection to two enemy creatures, and that redirection is randomized so that any two enemy non-immortal creatures receive the damage, it seems a bit underpowered. However, this may be more realistic to have.

What I was thinking was that the health for misery and woe to be changed to 0 | 2 (still unchangeable), and to change the ability to "any damage dealt to woe / misery is dealt to all enemy creatures (but max damage = max health = 2). So if the opponent used thunderstorm, all creatures on his side would be dealt -1 health, and if you used rage potion on woe / misery, all creatures on the opponent's side would be dealt -2 health. This would not do tremendous damage against the opponent's creatures, but still wipe out the annoying small creatures.
Kind of in between fire storm and thunder storm

Also, some useful things to balance the card may be

Woe / misery is immortal on the turn that it is placed in field (so that the opponent has a chance to do something)Woe / misery is immortal for the turn after one attack (you cannot use 3 rage pots on it in one turn)

EDIT: Posted before the last two posts, but not good enough in English to word 'ability is unchangeable'

[RRQJ]

I don't see what's wrong with making it similar to voodoo doll: give it a sizable amount of HP, enough so that the opponent wouldn't likely escape it without it at least causing problems.  (obviously they could with rewind/eternity, but that is a solution even as it is now.  And who uses the freeze/shockwave combo?)

Of course, this would reduce your idea to one that probably has been mentioned before, and thus, not be exciting and unique.  So I dunno.  Maybe some other people can provide input?

[russianspy1234]

what if both players have one? instant death to all other creatures?

[mildlyfrightenedboy]

what if both players have one? instant death to all other creatures?

From the notes:
"Multiple Miseries / Woes:
If you want to have a little fun, though, you can use TU on a Misery / Woe or play your own.  Any damage inflicted to the enemy Misery / Woe would be inflicted to your Misery / Woe and your creatures, which would then be inflicted to their creatures.  Only one Misery / Woe can use its skill per side.  (It would basically kill every creature if you were to each have one, then inflict any damage to either.)  If you each have at least one Misery / Woe, then any damage inflicted to either Misery / Woe will be dealt to every creature on the field."

...you didn't read the bold...

Anyway, I am thinking about drastically altering the idea to this:

The new mechanic fits in more with the Misery theme.  The creature is miserable and keeps all of its anger bottled up, then releases its wrath at a creature, and then starts anew.Basically, it damages the target creature for however much damage it has taken, and then its HP becomes 20.
There are a few differences though:
This card only targets one creature.
This card does not instantly redirect damage.
This card does not only deal with damage, it deals with any HP change - you can heal it and then target an allied creature to heal it.
This card's skill can be lobotomized as it is an active skill.
This card does not drain quanta (the hefty skill cost should be enough).

Well, what do you think?  A decent replacement?

[RRQJ]

looks interesting.  better than now (or at least easier to work with) in terms of balance for sure.

[russianspy1234]

"only one misery / woe can use its skill per side" says nothing about what happens if each side has one.  the parenthesis following that do not explain if that is the intended interaction or not.

[xsindomanx]

It looks like the new card is much nicer & simpler, but I don't really understand it perfectly..
Is it pretty much the same idea as a voodoo, except that it is able to heal any damage less than 20 (though this would likely never happen unless a gravity pull is used on it), that it damages a target creature instead of the player's health ONLY when the skill is activated?

Seems like a lot weaker than a voodoo doll.

Voodoo Doll (upgraded)

Creature health: 20Creature cost: 2 :darknessCreature ability: Voodoo (anything that is done on the voodoo is also done on the opponent or whatever creatures)Creature ability cost: 0 (passive)

Misery (presumably upgraded):

Creature health: 20Creature cost: 5 :darknessCreature ability: Wrath (any damage that is done on the misery is done the same to a selected creature)Creature ability cost: 2

Now, a misery is much more expansive, and it has an ability cost. The only thing that may be good about this card is that it heals any damage after the ability is activated. However, a voodoo doll has a further advantage in that opponent's hp (the goal of the game) is more important than a creature's hp.

The new idea is interesting and realistic to use, but it is highly doubtful that anybody would use it.