Mind Fortress | Mind Fortress

[Valyok26]

NAME: Mind Fortress ELEMENT: Aether COST: 10 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Fill your hand with Living Image cards when played. 0: Abandon Mind Fortress 0: Siege Mind Fortress	NAME: Mind Fortress ELEMENT: Aether COST: 9 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Fill your hand with Living Image cards when played. 0: Abandon Mind Fortress 0: Siege Mind Fortress

ART: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hochosterwitz_01052004_04.jpg IDEA: Valyok26 NOTES: The essence of this card is that portal to casters mind is created and he can now directly affect reality with his thoughts. But on the other hand his mind becomes more vulnurable by material beings. When Mind Fortress is destroyed all Living Images fades away. When destroyed by Abandon ability Mind Fortress gives for every Living Image under owner's control. Ability 'Siege Mind Fortress' can be played by opponent only. If attacking creatures' summary damage is greater than creatures' in hand summary hp + 15 than double damage is dealt and Mind Fortress is destroyed along with all Living Images. Otherwise attacking creatures are captured in Mind Fortress's owner's mind i.e. all attacking creatures are destroyed and Mind Fortress' owner's hand is filled with attacking creatures' copies. Also Mind Fortress reduces physical damage by 2, is untargetable and player can control only one Mind Fortress at the same time. When second Mind Fortress is played, it vanishes at the end of the turn but Living Image cards in hand remains. I'm welcome to any suggestions and ideas, especially about what other features should be added to this card. SERIES:

NAME: Living Image ELEMENT: Aeter COST: 2 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Once a turn put an image of creature in hand to play. Image is the same creature draining each turn.	NAME: Living Image ELEMENT: Aether COST: 2 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Once a turn put an image of creature in hand to play. Image is the same creature draining each turn.

ART: Valyok26 IDEA: Valyok26 NOTES: Spell has no effect when played more then once a turn. SERIES:

[Rutarete]

You need to refine the abilities. When I clicked on this, which ability would activate? There's too many active abilities for one permanent. Maybe you should split it into more cards.

[furballdn]

Seems pretty complicated. What's an aether copy? Like TU? Or a copy of a creature costing ?

[Valyok26]

You need to refine the abilities. When I clicked on this, which ability would activate? There's too many active abilities for one permanent. Maybe you should split it into more cards.

Seems pretty complicated. What's an aether copy? Like TU? Or a copy of a creature costing ?

Yes, it was really too complicated. I splitted card into two and rewrited notes, so i hope card mechanics are more understandable now.

[OldTrees]

Welcome to the CIA.

One of the tips/guidelines for card suggestion design is "Keep it simple and straightforward".

Questions to consider asking:
What are you suggesting be added to the game that this card is doing?  "I want to add this card" is not an answer.
Is there a simpler version that still accomplishes the goal?
If you idea has 2 or more sections to its ability/abilities then consider: Would multiple separate suggestions be a simpler solution?

You wanted to expand Aether's subtheme of Mind to include "Mind over Matter/Matter over Mind".

Your suggestion has 8 total abilities.
(Permanent)
Generate Living Images when it enters play
DR 2
Immaterial
Remove all Living Images
Sacrifice to generate  per Living Image
Opponent can siege using a complex mechanic that many would not understand and is not sufficiently described on the card text.
(Spell)
Once per turn Twin Universe a creature from the hand
(Creature)
Absorb 
Each of these abilities appears to me to be unbalanced, not relevant, or too complex

What if Living Spell was an activated ability on a permanent or creature? [2 abilities] The mental portal would be material enough that PC or CC would be able to destroy/disrupt it. Obviously the cheap Twin Universe ability would have to be balanced.

[Valyok26]

What are you suggesting be added to the game that this card is doing? 

It would be matter of who would take action first. The first alternative is that opponent attacks suddenly, deals double damage, destroys fortress and leave owner of fortress without quanta, because of absorbing quanta Living Images. The second is owner abandons fortress, and gathers two quanta per image. Both players would think about opponent's hand, have he got enough creatures for defense or suddenly attack or not.

Is there a simpler version that still accomplishes the goal?

It may look very complicated but fortress is just shield + creature generator + siege. I suppose it looks complicated when being designed, but in game player would only think about is it enough creatures for siege or not. Like 'is it time to explode dimensional shield or not'.

DR 2
Immaterial

This is not too complex, so these abilities can be left anyway. Immaterial is needed to prevent all strategy from being ruined by mere explosion. DR 2 is needed because it is fortress and fortresses should reduce physical damage.

Sacrifice to generate  per Living Image

It is more like sacrifice fortress and most creatures to evade double damage and quanta lack.

Opponent can siege using a complex mechanic that many would not understand and is not sufficiently described on the card text.

It is not very complex. Your creatures' attack power and your opponent creatures' in hand defense. That's all.

Absorb  :

This ability sets upper limit to number of Living Images in play and makes loss of siege more harmful. But maybe 1 is not enough.

What if Living Spell was an activated ability on a permanent or creature?

Nothing.

The mental portal would be material enough that PC or CC would be able to destroy/disrupt it.

I think PC/CC is too weak alternative to siege.

Obviously the cheap Twin Universe ability would have to be balanced.

I'm not very experienced with the game so any balance suggestions are welcome.  I'll think about how make Living Images harder to play, but I don't know if Twin Universe cost should be higher or per turn quanta absorption should be upped.

Would multiple separate suggestions be a simpler solution?

Most complexity is concentrated in one instant of siege; therefore I think nothing can be done. Siege can't be separated from creature generation because possibility of siege is price for playing cheap Living Images and only cheap Living Images make siege necessary for opponent.


I thank you for your reply. And I will think about balance and about how to make this card simpler. However I suppose complexity is integral part of this card.

[OldTrees]

You might want to reread my questions and comments.
1) What do you want added to the game? If you answer Mind Fortress then you have not taken the time to think about the question. Each time you think you have an answer to this question, pause and try to identify what fraction of that answer you want added to the game. This process helps identify the core of your suggestion.

2) Once you have identified the core of your suggestion then consider if a simpler version exists.

3) Complexity is measured in quantity of abilities and complexity of each ability. DR and Immaterial are not very complex alone nor is a Protected Shield very complex. However a Protected Shield that can be used simultaneously with another shield, has a bunch of abilities and creates another type of card is very complex.
DR does not make sense. It is a mental fortress not a physical one. Your theme indicated that it left the user vulnerable to physical assault not protected from physical assault.
Immaterial does not make sense either. Your theme indicated the mental fortress would be vulnerable to physical assault. The concern you have with Explosion is unfounded if the card were balanced. Immaterial is overused in design as a crutch. You do not need it.

4) I assume from your comment you are familiar with a fairly complex card game like MtG. Siege would be of appropriate complexity for such a game but the effect would have to be understandable from just the card and the online rules pdf. EtG is much less complex because it tries to appeal to a broader audience however like in MtG clarity is very important. A new player faces up against a Mind Fortress would have no idea if the should or should not siege based on that tiny description on the card.
Alternate siege mechanics might be useful instead. PC can be used to siege against a hand of Titanium Shields. Creatures siege against Bone Wall. Note the increases clarity for people not used to MtG level complexion.

[Valyok26]

1) What do you want added to the game?

I want to add to the game elements of bluffing, make players more think strategically and make game more funny of course.

For example. It's simplified so don't think that's exactly as it is would be. Player 1 puts Mind Fortress in game. He is getting less damage, playing Living Images, using all advanteges that Mind Fortress is giving him. Player 2 have enough powerful creatures in deck, he may also have Sky Blitz. But in this game he is getting only pillars from his deck. But he isn't playing them. He is making Player 1 think that he is preparing creatures in hand to suddenly attack him, destroy Mind Fortress and win the game. Therefore Player 1 abandons fortress though in fact he was not in danger.
Isn't it funny?
I understand that my card isn't balanced but can't it be balanced?

2) Once you have identified the core of your suggestion then consider if a simpler version exists.

For bluffing one of the players might be able to use action, that he afraid of using because of other player’s chance to prevent it or use for his own advantage. Like one player afraid of growing Lava Destroyers because other player can play TUs. But this example is not very interesting and need two cards: TU and Lava Destroyer. My construction needs only one card and is more interesting.
One card, one action for owner and one action for opponent. In addition, players' hands should matter. There are of course simpler versions but there are no much simpler. And I don't know how this particular card can be simplified.
I could remove DR and rename card from Mind Fortress to Mind Portal or do something like this, but this wouldn't make card much simpler.
I could remove capturing creatures in mind and replace it with just damaging them, but this would make card less original.
I still think creature generation is the most suitable ability for Mind Fortress.
I could replace Living Images with simpler creature generation, like '2 : generate 5/5 Sick Mind Product'. But it wouldn't be interesting.

DR does not make sense. It is a mental fortress not a physical one. Your theme indicated that it left the user vulnerable to physical assault not protected from physical assault.

I think about Mind Fortress like about something created by mind but almost completely material. Mind Fortress can be used like gate from reality to mind, but it isn't something imaginary. It IS physical.
But I can remove DR anyway. Let Mind Fortress be not physical. No problem.

Immaterial does not make sense either. Your theme indicated the mental fortress would be vulnerable to physical assault. The concern you have with Explosion is unfounded if the card were balanced. Immaterial is overused in design as a crutch. You do not need it.

All right although there is Hope produced by mind and immaterial but protecting from physical damage.

4) I assume from your comment you are familiar with a fairly complex card game like MtG. Siege would be of appropriate complexity for such a game but the effect would have to be understandable from just the card and the online rules pdf. EtG is much less complex because it tries to appeal to a broader audience however like in MtG clarity is very important. A new player faces up against a Mind Fortress would have no idea if the should or should not siege based on that tiny description on the card.
Alternate siege mechanics might be useful instead. PC can be used to siege against a hand of Titanium Shields. Creatures siege against Bone Wall. Note the increases clarity for people not used to MtG level complexion.

Some players program calculating applications to find decks' FGei. I suppose it would not be bad if someone played with cards like Mind Fortress in deck.
I assume that if this card ever made into the game it would use some kind of hint or screen tips.
And I still think siege mechanics is not very complex. Player playing against Mind Fortress should understand just that he needs certain attack power to siege it, that's all.

Alternate siege mechanics might be useful instead. PC can be used to siege against a hand of Titanium Shields. Creatures siege against Bone Wall. Note the increases clarity for people not used to MtG level complexion.

I think adding and subtracting creatures' damage and life is simpler that siege with PC/CC interactions.


Thanks for reply, and sorry for making you write and read so much text. I'll think much about balance.

[OldTrees]

What you want would be cards that the user can use in multiple ways, can switch between uses and either option is preferred depending on the predicted situation.

What if Bone Wall had the option to change a layers into a Skeleton? The Death elemental would walk a line trying to make as many skeletons as possible while not letting the shield get low enough the the opponent can destroy it. If the opponent feigns weakness they can destroy the shield. If the opponent feigns strength they can restrict the skeleton animation. This is similar to what your idea is except the hp of the creatures in the hand is the layers and playing the creatures is the animating the skeleton.

A simpler version would be a Shield with Layers that could be expended to create Living Images. Each layer might reduce/negate damage or perhaps have a new shield effect. The shield might have a finite number of layers, have some trigger to gain layers or even recharge up to X layers dependent on some variable.

Can your card be balanced? I don't have a good idea.
The major roadblock to balancing this card is that it is so complex with so many new abilities that the consequences are much harder to predict and our intuitions are worthless.
The second major roadblock is getting to cast X creatures for 10 |9 + 2 cards + (2 +1 per turn) each where X is the number of empty slots in the hand when MF is played. Aka cheap mono dragons. Probably Golden Dragons.

Notes:
Experts use FGei. New players are not put at an unfair disadvantage in PvP due to their ignorance of FGei. The limited text currently on the card to describe siege would punish new players for their ignorance. I doubt we can expect Zanzarino slowing down the card output to create info boxes of sufficient detail to remove this problem.

Subtracting an unknown value from a known value is much more complex than using PC or summoning a creature. This is especially true when the PC has a detailed card description while siege at best has a popup description in more complicated language.