Poll

What do you think of Mercury?

It's great and would do well in a deck.
3 (14.3%)
It is a good concept, but wouldn't be very practical.
9 (42.9%)
It is an average card, but it doesn't offer much more than an Immortal or a Charger.
0 (0%)
It is a poor card that won't fit in most decks.
0 (0%)
Deep, deep left field with this one.
9 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 21

*Author

Offline mildlyfrightenedboyTopic starter

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Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500148#msg500148
« on: May 17, 2012, 09:53:12 pm »
NAME:
Mercury
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 5
TEXT:
Mercury is able to adapt to the situation at hand.
NAME:
Quicksilver
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 6
TEXT:
Quicksilver is able to adapt to the situation at hand.

ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/962501
IDEA:
MildlyFrightenedBoy
NOTES:
Mercury and Quicksilver have the unique ability to adapt to the opponent's strategy.
The ability is passive and cannot be lobotomized.

- If the opponent plays a shield, Mercury gains ATK equal to the shield's damage reduction.  This bonus is not lost if the shield is destroyed.
- If the opponent plays any shield with an effect other than flat damage reduction (Fire Shield, Permafrost Shield), Mercury gains Momentum.
- If the opponent plays Wings or Vanadium Warden, Mercury gains Airborne.
- If the owner plays Sky Blitz, Mercury gains Airborne.
- When Mercury takes damage that leaves it at or below 0 HP, it remains alive.
- If Mercury has a negative ATK, it gains Antimatter immediately before attacking.
- If Shard of Patience is played, Mercury is changed to a :water creature and the space that it currently occupies becomes flooded.
- Mercury cannot be frozen or delayed.
- If Flooding is played, Mercury becomes a :water creature.
- If Eclipse is played, Mercury becomes a :darkness creature.
- If Flooding and Eclipse / SoP are both active, Mercury becomes a :water creature and gains the buff from Eclipse permanently.
- Mercury can be targeted with Butterfly Effect regardless of ATK.
- Mercury is counted as a :time creature when targeted with Shard of Readiness.
- Mercury is counted as a :light-producing creature when Hope is active (it never produces :light, however).


It models :earth's general high defense with shields / Stone Skin as a creature, but with a theme of adaptation rather than brute force.

I set up a poll to see the general idea of the card.
SERIES:

This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500151#msg500151
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 10:06:49 pm »
i think this is ridiculously OP

you cant kill it, delay it, freeze it, antimatter it or stop it with shields

its better than an immortal yet it costs roughly the same
has no real counter but it can counter nearly everything

no, just no.

Offline mildlyfrightenedboyTopic starter

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500158#msg500158
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 10:27:41 pm »
i think this is ridiculously OP

you cant kill it, delay it, freeze it, antimatter it or stop it with shields

its better than an immortal yet it costs roughly the same
has no real counter but it can counter nearly everything

no, just no.

However, it is just a 6 | 6 creature.  It becomes immortal if your opponent plays the right shield, meaning that you can't buff it.  Should I increase the cost?
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500164#msg500164
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 10:35:26 pm »
i think this is ridiculously OP

you cant kill it, delay it, freeze it, antimatter it or stop it with shields

its better than an immortal yet it costs roughly the same
has no real counter but it can counter nearly everything

no, just no.

However, it is just a 6 | 6 creature.  It becomes immortal if your opponent plays the right shield, meaning that you can't buff it.  Should I increase the cost?

if you still believe the card can be balanced, yes the cost should be raised to at least 8 :earth imo. you may not buff it, but once it comes to the field, what can really stop the card? maybe RT but thats not enough to not make it overpowered.

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500323#msg500323
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 04:27:01 am »
As a concept, the idea is quite cool. However, you need to tone the responses down A LOT. Right now this card seems way OP in my opinion. Its not 100% uncounterable, but its getting close...
Mercury tends to be extremely poisonous btw... maybe it should poison the owner every turn as one counter-balance... (in fact, it often acts as a neurotoxin... nudge nudge)

Most of your suggested reactions are nearly hard counters, so they either need to
1) Be removed
2) Be made as a "soft" counter
3) Be limited
4) Have a serious counter balance measure to make a player think twice about using this card.

One other suggestion would be to only allow it to adapt a set number of times in a given player's turn.

One of my favorite pieces of advice I saw from OldTrees was that a player should have to consider whether a card is worth including over other similar cards. If the choice is easy, its probably unbalanced or the player is missing something.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 04:38:22 am by OdinVanguard »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
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kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
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Offline AP579

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500328#msg500328
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 04:38:38 am »
I think the thematic should be changed. I like the idea of adapting, but with mercury it doesn't make any sense for me.
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Offline mildlyfrightenedboyTopic starter

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500332#msg500332
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 04:55:42 am »

One of my favorite pieces of advice I saw from OldTrees was that a player should have to consider whether a card is worth including over other similar cards. If the choice is easy, its probably unbalanced or the player is missing something.

Comparing Mercury to Abomination, I think I need to nerf it.

Regarding your idea: what if you used a free ability to gain 1 | 2 charges, which would each allow Mercury to do one thing (gain Momentum become a :water creature, etc.) but poison the owner upon casting?
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline mildlyfrightenedboyTopic starter

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500335#msg500335
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2012, 05:03:05 am »
I think the thematic should be changed. I like the idea of adapting, but with mercury it doesn't make any sense for me.

Mercury is a liquid that flows very easily despite being a metal.
Here's a picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Pouring_liquid_mercury_bionerd.jpg/553px-Pouring_liquid_mercury_bionerd.jpg

It also has a relatively close boiling and melting point compared to other metals, so it can be easily observed in all states of matter.  Alchemists also considered mercury to be one of the most important elements, and it was required to create gold.

Also, "mercury" is the root word for "mercurial", which means 'easily shaped or changed'.
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500382#msg500382
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2012, 09:58:02 am »
I think the thematic should be changed. I like the idea of adapting, but with mercury it doesn't make any sense for me.

Mercury is a liquid that flows very easily despite being a metal.
Here's a picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Pouring_liquid_mercury_bionerd.jpg/553px-Pouring_liquid_mercury_bionerd.jpg

It also has a relatively close boiling and melting point compared to other metals, so it can be easily observed in all states of matter.  Alchemists also considered mercury to be one of the most important elements, and it was required to create gold.

Also, "mercury" is the root word for "mercurial", which means 'easily shaped or changed'.

that image is pretty cool :P

i think that all those adaptations you suggested can work if mercury can only change once, and if it could only change once the cost could return to 6 :earth

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500400#msg500400
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2012, 11:46:42 am »
It's a nice concept, but probably it would be too difficult to code and is OP anyway, you should let it die with hp<0, and lower Atk/Hp

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500513#msg500513
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 05:25:33 pm »
It's a nice concept, but probably it would be too difficult to code and is OP anyway, you should let it die with hp<0, and lower Atk/Hp
I'm not sure on all of them, but I wouldn't think coding some of the abilities would be too bad. The abilities do need to be toned down though, and limiting the number of morphs somehow is probably a must.
Instead of just plain not dying at hp=0, have it survive once and then die if hit again or on its next attack if not healed (i.e. treat it like a spark when the first killing blow is dealt).
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline AP579

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Re: Mercury | Quicksilver https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40351.msg500619#msg500619
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 10:57:23 pm »
I am aware that mercury is a metal that is liquid at room temperature. There are many other things that may also have that arguments like that (e.g. Iodine or Bromine), and I don't exactly see how its significance in alchemy is relevant, but I see your point with mercurial.
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